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Asteroids weird beeping?

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Mr Bond View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Bond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Asteroids weird beeping?
    Posted: 02 Aug 2019 at 7:53pm
Anyone had this sound before on asteroids? Game sounds are there but its got a continuous mystery ship beeping noise?    

https://youtu.be/9fVvKunODoY
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tcgn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2019 at 9:07pm
the ufo sound is always active - so the logic whether it should be on/off is not working (/SAUCRSNDEN) .

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mitchell Gant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2019 at 9:14pm
My guess would be the 4016B chip at location N10 has failed, but could also be chip N9  (7406, pin 12) stuck low 0V, or chip M10 (74LS259, pin 4) stuck high 5V.

If you had a logic probe or voltmeter you could test the pins I mentioned to confirm if they were stuck, but my bet would be the 4016B needs replacing.

Boy, is this a machine!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Bond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2019 at 10:13pm
Cheers chaps I’ll try that...

I’ll have a look for a cheap logic probe

Edited by Mr Bond - 02 Aug 2019 at 10:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nes4life Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2019 at 9:33am
If you've not bought one yet I can post you one. Just post it back when you're done. Depends if you want to own one just in case.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Bond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2019 at 11:11am
Thanks mate. Think I’d prob be as well buying one? Seen one on amazon for about £12

Laser 5263 Logic Probe DC https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B006IRIP8I/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_v2vrDbG2MZADA

Would that do or is it cheap crap?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nes4life Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2019 at 11:47am
Yeah that'd do fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Bond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 3:00pm
Ok so I’ve changed chip N10, no difference
Checked N9 pin 12 and it reads 5v
Checked M10 pin 4 and it reads 0v

Can anyone point me to the schematics that indicate what pins should be doing what?

Cheers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mitchell Gant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 9:42pm
Hmm, that's a puzzle then!

Schematics can be downloaded here:

If N10 is changed and working, and N9 pin 12 is at 5V, then what it should do is turn on the switch in N10 and connect pins 1 and 2 together, shorting the signal (pin 2) to ground (pin 1). That should prevent the sound signal getting through to transistor Q6 base.

Can you tell us more about what led to the fault appearing?

Did you just turn it on one day and the sound was there? Had other repairs been done just before? Had the PCB been removed/re-installed and it started? Etc..

A broken PCB track from N10 pin 2 could cause the fault. Maybe the PCB has been damaged by mishandling and broken it for example. You could manually connect Q6 base to ground with a wire and see if it stops the sound then.

You're past the obvious simple faults now :-( 

Boy, is this a machine!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nes4life Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 10:03pm
Hey! So this is definitely the saucer sound firing when it shouldn't.
On a working PCB M10 pin 4 should stay around 0v when the saucer is not on the screen.
This signal is called 'SAUCRSNDEN' in the schematics.
This leads to N9 pin 13 and this is inverted on pin 12. However, you should be reading 12V on N9 pin 12 as it is connected to 12v via a 1K pull-up resistor (R85).
This pulled-up signal is then fed into N10 pin 13.

Please check that you get a reading of 12V on both pins of R85 (it's located to the bottom right of N10 on my PCB).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Bond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 10:09pm
Hi. Got the cab from coin op a few months back. It was like this when I got it. Changed it over to 240 with the jumpers and powered it up. Monitor was dodgy but the game played. The game runs and plays perfectly fine aside this ufo noise. I recapped the board and the monitor, and the PWR supply, new big blue etc. Game runs perfectly now except this sound fault.   

I think the board has been repaired before looking at it. There’s a few jumper wires on there indicating broken tracks in the past, but aside that it’s really clean as is the whole inside of the cab.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mitchell Gant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2019 at 10:33pm
Originally posted by Nes4life Nes4life wrote:

On a working PCB M10 pin 4 should stay around 0v when the saucer is not on the screen.

Phill, I think you mean pin 2 there? Pin 4 is saucer sound select part isn't it?

Originally posted by Nes4life Nes4life wrote:

This leads to N9 pin 13 and this is inverted on pin 12. However, you should be reading 12V on N9 pin 12 as it is connected to 12v via a 1K pull-up resistor (R85).
This pulled-up signal is then fed into N10 pin 13.

Please check that you get a reading of 12V on both pins of R85 (it's located to the bottom right of N10 on my PCB).

R85 being faulty could do it though if it doesn't turn on N10 properly.

James (that is your name, right Mr Bond?) said he read only 5V on N9 pin 12, but was that with a voltmeter or did you just read a 'high' with your new logic probe?

As Phill says, you need to read the voltage on both sides of R85, or preferably on N10 pin 13 to be sure it's being properly pulled to 12V. (Use you multimeter set to voltage)

Boy, is this a machine!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nes4life Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 9:43am
Originally posted by Mitchell Gant Mitchell Gant wrote:

Phill, I think you mean pin 2 there? Pin 4 is saucer sound select part isn't it?

The schematics I'm using show SAUCRSNDEN coming from M10 pin 4 and connects to N9 pin 13, is inverted at N9 pin 12 and connects to N10 pin 13 via pull-up resistor R85. 
SAUCERSEL comes from M10 pin 6 and connects to N9 pin 1, is inverted at N9 pin 2 and connects to N10 pins 5 and 6 via pull-up resistor R63. 

Edited photo of schematics to clarify:
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mitchell Gant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 12:59pm
Originally posted by Nes4life Nes4life wrote:

Originally posted by Mitchell Gant Mitchell Gant wrote:

Phill, I think you mean pin 2 there? Pin 4 is saucer sound select part isn't it?

The schematics I'm using show SAUCRSNDEN coming from M10 pin 4 and connects to N9 pin 13, is inverted at N9 pin 12 and connects to N10 pin 13 via pull-up resistor R85. 
SAUCERSEL comes from M10 pin 6 and connects to N9 pin 1, is inverted at N9 pin 2 and connects to N10 pins 5 and 6 via pull-up resistor R63. 

Edited photo of schematics to clarify:

Ah, you're right, I was getting my 'M' and 'N' confused there, I was thinking you meant N10 pin 4. Embarrassed

As the fault was already existing rather than had been working then developed whist playing, it means there is more than just chip failure to consider now.
Boy, is this a machine!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Bond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 2019 at 8:34pm
Yes I used a multimeter to check the voltage. I’ve got a probe but couldn’t see where to connect it up to so just used the multimeter.

I’ll do some more testing tomorrow. Cheers guys

Edited by Mr Bond - 03 Sep 2019 at 8:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Bond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 6:25pm
Tested R85. 12v going in, only mV coming out. It’s dead. Same with N10 pin 13.
Looks like I need a 1k resister.

Edited by Mr Bond - 12 Sep 2019 at 6:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Bond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 7:04pm
This track around this leg looks dodgy also ?    Sorry for the blurred photo, my phones useless

https://ibb.co/gz5gYNKcc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Equites Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 7:52pm
Originally posted by Mr Bond Mr Bond wrote:

Tested R85. 12v going in, only mV coming out. It’s dead. Same with N10 pin 13.
Looks like I need a 1k resister.


That's not how you test a resistor.

Seriously, you've given it a good shot, maybe time for a repairer to look at it.
Atari PCB's (and most non-Atari), AR2's, Vector Deflection/HV boards repaired & refurbished.
Wanted: Non-working Atari PCBs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Bond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 9:53pm
Just following advise from above. It’s not reading 12v either side and not at N10 pin 13.    It’s not reading 1k ohms either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Bond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2019 at 10:07pm
Don’t mind letting anyone look at it?
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