ukVac.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Technical > Tech, Maintenance & Repairs
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Konami Hyper Olympic / Track and Field
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Skin:


Konami Hyper Olympic / Track and Field

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
Pantman View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Wiltshire
Status: Offline
Points: 7

Feedback: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pantman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Konami Hyper Olympic / Track and Field
    Posted: 02 Mar 2015 at 9:12pm
Hi there,

I've been trying to fix a Konami Hyper Olympic / Track N Field board for a while now, but I'm not making much progress. The symptom of the problem is that I get a blue screen when I power on the PCB. When I press start, I can hear the game running in the background, so the problem seems to be restricted to the video.

I traced the problem as far back as the Konami 502 custom chip on the corner (16-A) of the main board. On this chip, output pins (14-18) are all stuck high. The data pins connected to the line buffer RAMs (1-4, 23-26) are all stuck low. Pins (20-22) are all stuck high.

The address lines into the line buffer RAM chips all look okay, and it's currently my assumption that the Konami 502 is faulty. I've checked it's connections with a multimeter and they all look okay.

I have two questions:

1) Does anyone have any suggestions about what else might be worth checking?
2) Does anyone know where I might be able to get my hands on a replacement 502 chip? I know some Konami boards used a daughter board instead of the 502, but I've not found a schematic for these either.

Cheers!
Back to Top
silverfox0786 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar
Beware the Hillman

Joined: 22 Jan 2014
Location: Slough, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 8221

Feedback: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silverfox0786 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2015 at 9:15pm
first thing to check is the 5V line

it has to be 5V even 4.9 and it wont work

I found that out t he hard way, had a board I suspected didn't work because it want pulling enough juice

if the voltage is good then have you checked the colour Srams
Back to Top
Pantman View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Wiltshire
Status: Offline
Points: 7

Feedback: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pantman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2015 at 9:44pm
Hi SilverFox, thanks for replying so quickly!

The voltage is fine. I measured it on the 502 as 5 volts. By colour SRAMs, do you mean the pair of 2149s connected to the 502 (14-A, 14-B)? The addresses into them look fine, but the data channels connecting to the 502 are all stuck low.

I think that all the other inputs to the 502 are pulsing, but the outputs seem to be stuck high, except for the connection to the 2149s which is low. Since only the data channels seem stuck, is it likely that they are the problem? Wouldn't that just cause the image to be corrupt/blank, and the other lines (e.g LOADA/B, CLRA/B) should still pulse normally?

I am new to repairing boards, I've fixed a couple so far but I am still learning. Thank you for your help!
Back to Top
cmonkey View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 Jan 2013
Location: Leeds, West YKS
Status: Offline
Points: 7743

Feedback: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2015 at 10:28pm
You can get a CPLD replacement for the Konami 502 custom from MikeJ @ fpgaarcade.com

Back to Top
Pantman View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Wiltshire
Status: Offline
Points: 7

Feedback: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pantman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2015 at 11:54pm
Thanks for the suggestion, I've posted a message over there!
Back to Top
RGP View Drop Down
Senior Members
Senior Members

Meeter & Greeter

Joined: 11 Apr 2013
Location: Blackburn
Status: Offline
Points: 4659

Feedback: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RGP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2015 at 12:12am
Is the chip socketed, I can't remember?

If it is, try pulling up (very carefully) a couple of the output pins and then see if you're getting anything.

I've just chased a number of this kind of issue on a TRON pcb set which proved to be something else on the same bus.

If you're getting pins stuck hi one place and the next in direct sequence has the inputs from those outputs stuck lo then you likely have bad traces.  Output signals on a chip can be affected by drive signals to them.

Example, I found a 157 that had input pins all accepting data, output pin stuck lo - all of them, voltage getting to the chip, ground from chip to logic ground was fine.  My logic comparator said the chip was fine so I pulled it anyway and tested it out of circuit, absolutely fine by two testers.  Turned out to be pin 15 was connected properly and so the signal enabling the chip to put data out wasn't being actuated.

Check your physical lines and on Konami boards the sockets are known trouble causers.

Remember that somewhere (I don't know exactly where) the background and foreground have to merge then travel up the interconnect cable to the top board and out of the edge connector.

There is a power interconnect somewhere on those as well going top to bottom, ensure voltage is going down that correctly as you don't know what that could affect.

Parts for fixin' and stuff for sale in our webstore here
Back to Top
Pantman View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Wiltshire
Status: Offline
Points: 7

Feedback: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pantman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2015 at 8:19pm
Thanks very much for the detailed reply! I'm in the process of ordering a replacement 502 from MikeJ over at fpgaarcade. Once it arrives I'll continue work on the board!
Back to Top
Ahoud View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 5

Feedback: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ahoud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 5:18pm
Since this thread has been silent for a while, I assume this post doesn't count as hijacking... 

Have been working for a while on a Konami Hyper Olympic with some nasty Sprite issues. In my search on the web I came across multiple similar issues, for which I've been trying to apply the fixes as described... but that didn't fix the issue for my particular board. Looking for some pointers from you guys, as I'm tapped out / clueless what to do next.

What I've done so far:
Checked voltages;
Dumped the ROMs / checked- and verified to be correct (replaced / burned D07);
Burned- and inserted Shoestrings Hyper Olympic Tester ROM for RAM / ROM check (OK);
Socketed and replaced both multiplexers 74LS157 (15G and 16E);
Socketed and replaced both SRAM with 2149-55 (14A and 14B);
Socketed and replaced the Konami 502 custom with CPLD replacement from MikeJ;
Socketed and replaced multiplexer 74LS298 (16D).

Made a short video of the issue- and my board as-is right now: https://youtu.be/TTNnklSql-g

Your help pointing me into a certain direction on what to attack next would be highly appreciated!

Back to Top
bones View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 13 Jul 2016
Location: Essex
Status: Offline
Points: 81

Feedback: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018 at 3:13pm
hi,by no means do i have your technical knowhow,but i had a similar problem with a hypersports[different i know]. i thought it was going to be the ls157s but it ended up being a low number ls chip,sorry can't remember exactly and boards currently on site but was an ls20 or below maybe a 14,04 or 08 but i'll have a look next time i'm there. A few years ago now but it looked alright with a probe but failed when tested out of circuit.
Back to Top
NivagSwerdna View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 19 May 2017
Status: Offline
Points: 81

Feedback: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NivagSwerdna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018 at 5:01pm
What is happening on pins 5,6,7,8,9 and 27 of the custom?

My interpretation is that the 502 drives the rams both ways so it might not be broken itself.

>>> Socketed and replaced the Konami 502 custom with CPLD replacement from MikeJ;
Ah. Just read that.  Wink  Probably not the 502 then!

Looking at the video... the dude only goes wrong towards the right hand side... 

@0:11 Shows full half a dude on the left (correct), half half a dude in the middle, half half a dude towards the right... i.e. dudes appearing too often.

74LS08 at 13D?

i.e. CS on Line Buffer




Edited by NivagSwerdna - 20 Apr 2018 at 12:59pm
Back to Top
bones View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 13 Jul 2016
Location: Essex
Status: Offline
Points: 81

Feedback: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018 at 9:22pm
like i say i'm not that good really but even at the start of the video the character is flashing up here and there. it just looks like the info's out of synch or sneaking through when it shouldn't, sort of suggests there may be a gate not operating when it should. otherwise maybe if you overlayed the various stripy sprites would it make a complete one. ie when its drawing the sprite some of the info's just not being drawn at the right time possibly. that could be a partially dead chip interfering.
   when i got my hypersports i replaced all the eprom sockets straight away i think the originals only have conductiveness on the inner side of the socket and the legs were quite blackened also. i also made a new ribbon cable just to futureproof it a bit.
   my instinct is saying its got to be an ls chip, funny enough i'm awaiting delivery of refurbished hyper olympics from Germany tomorrow,got fed up with losing out to extortionate bids on ebay, got it delivered as a buy it now for 85 quid all in with all the extras.
   hopefully shinydaz might pipe up, heard he's pretty good with these boards.
Back to Top
RGP View Drop Down
Senior Members
Senior Members

Meeter & Greeter

Joined: 11 Apr 2013
Location: Blackburn
Status: Offline
Points: 4659

Feedback: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RGP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2018 at 12:56pm
What are the issues you are having with sprites?

Assuming you have all backgrounds and sounds right?

No sprites at all - check the MUX chain (set of 157's just before the colour rams, ensure pin 1 and/or pin 15 is changing).

Lines missing in sprites - potentially bad socket on the object ROMs or one of the line buffer RAMs isn't getting written to.

Garbage blocks of sprites - not always the RAM - a lot of times this is caused by the circuit that calculates the address to access within the object ROMs.

The schematics aren't great scans that are online for these boards but follow the signal marked /OBJROM

Post a photo of the issue.
Parts for fixin' and stuff for sale in our webstore here
Back to Top
Ahoud View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 5

Feedback: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ahoud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2018 at 10:15am
Thanks all for the great responses, guys. Will focus on the 74LS08 first, as that seems to be one specific pointer to follow-up. Maybe also the 74LS04 @ 6D? Will need to source these parts, so if there would be any additional things to consider - please let me know.

@RGP: No photo, but have you seen the short video posted? Schematics are indeed not great - have been using this one up till now: https://farm1.staticflickr.com/618/20877085508_bcb55b7c57_o.jpg
Can't find the signal marked /OBJROM though?
Back to Top
Purity View Drop Down
Senior Members
Senior Members
Avatar
The Oracle

Joined: 05 Apr 2009
Location: Manchester
Status: Offline
Points: 8339

Feedback: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Purity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2018 at 10:44am
Those schematics are the ones on my flickr site.  I tried to clean them up a bit so I knew what chips I needed to look at

I had a similar problem to what you've got.  I noticed some stuck pins on the roms and traced it back to a faulty LS04

I think I mention it here:

http://www.ukvac.com/forum/tnf-diagnostics_topic346666_page3.html

So have a quick look at all the LS04's on the bottom board to see if you have any issues.  Should be an easy quick check with a logic probe
Back to Top
NivagSwerdna View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 19 May 2017
Status: Offline
Points: 81

Feedback: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NivagSwerdna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2018 at 11:57am
Originally posted by Ahoud Ahoud wrote:

Maybe also the 74LS04 @ 6D?
If you have a scope it would really help with diagnosis around there.  Otherwise +1, both of those if it is a CS issue.

Edited by NivagSwerdna - 22 Apr 2018 at 11:57am
Back to Top
Ahoud View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 5

Feedback: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ahoud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2018 at 12:25pm
Took both 74LS08@13D (Quad 2-input AND Gates) and 74LS04@6B (6 Hex Inverting Gates) out of circuit, and tested using a breadboard / scope - all seems to be fine, not a single issue :-(
Will socket- and replace to be on the safe side, but I'm pretty convinced them not being the issue.

When poking around with the probe with all still in-circuit, I did notice some unpredictable resets, which I traced down to the IC sockets A1 to A5. Did replace them in te meantime, but am planning to replace them all, as these seem to be quite unreliable.

So the search goes on - any other suggestions?
Back to Top
NivagSwerdna View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 19 May 2017
Status: Offline
Points: 81

Feedback: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NivagSwerdna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2018 at 1:08pm
You are probably right but beware of comparing lemons to oranges...

The LS08 out of circuit might appear to work as an AND but to pedantic you are not actually testing it can drive its output under load.

But I'm a newbie and know nothing so I was probably leading you down the wrong garden path with a red herring.
Back to Top
Ahoud View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 5

Feedback: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ahoud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 3:49pm
Update: 74LS08@13D and 74LS04@6B socketed- and replaced... issue not solved, still the same as posted in my video earlier.

Still open for any other suggestions.
Back to Top
bones View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 13 Jul 2016
Location: Essex
Status: Offline
Points: 81

Feedback: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 4:40pm
Hi, I was rather hoping you'd have had some good fortune. Is there any chance of a couple of pics or video of the actual game play as opposed to the test rom. It's only that i've not dealt with the test rom before so maybe if I could see the fault in action so to speak I or someone might recognise the symptoms and it may be causing other issues that the test ROM scenario won't show. A long shot but you never know, sometimes the fault can be caused by something totally unrelated to the circuitry the schematics show.
   Also could you confirm that the sockets used for the eproms under the top board are the ones that conduct both on the inner and outer sides(ie the eprom pin fits between 2 connected conductive surfaces) or if they're the ones that only have the inner conductive surface which rely on the springyness to press the pin against the outer plastic case(metal fatigue causes all sorts of problems where the pin looks good a meters out fine but when under load its conductivity is diminished enough to make data transfer patchy at best). Reading ohms is easy for your meter even if the contacts are barely touching but once activity starts and current flows it can be a whole different ball game. If these eproms had blackened legs then that tells you that it's has been having trouble in the past. The nature of a chips legs is to push outwards as opposed to inwards and there could be a blackened partially conductive coating in socket below what is visual. Like I said I replaced all of my sockets as soon as i got the hypersports it took hours but its been running with no issues for some time now.
Back to Top
Shinydaz View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 09 Jul 2015
Location: Lincolnshire
Status: Offline
Points: 1771

Feedback: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shinydaz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2018 at 5:12pm
I'm far from an expert on these boards but I've had good success fixing a fair few of them in the past. Ive not seen this fault before. The main culprits seam to be dodgy sockets and a high amount of failing fajitsu logic chips.
Get probing them fajitsu's, I'd hold the probe on each pin for a good few seconds, as it might be failing intermittently. Clean the rom and custom legs if you haven't already. Give them a good push down when it's running to see if it affects the fault. Them srams tested ok with your scope?
Might be worth doing a video without the test rom in.

Edited by Shinydaz - 24 Apr 2018 at 11:07pm
Hunting for a pole position !!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.473 seconds.