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50" Rear projection Monitor Swap - OutRun 2 SP DLX

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Printed Date: 11 Aug 2020 at 10:59pm


Topic: 50" Rear projection Monitor Swap - OutRun 2 SP DLX
Posted By: muddymusic
Subject: 50" Rear projection Monitor Swap - OutRun 2 SP DLX
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2015 at 7:00pm
Some of you will have seen I picked up an OutRun 2 SP DLX last year, this is the big 50" version which Sega did with a lot of their games.

You have the main cabinet and then a separate monitor box housing a 50" rear projection tv. This is always either burnt to hell, a terrible washed out image or completely dead. This cab had the Wells Gardner LCD conversion kit fitted as part of the deal when I bought it - I was quite happy with it, it was nicely done and gave a bright and crisp image.





This game is one of my absolute favourites so I really wanted to try and get it back to original if I could, as the LCD kit means the game is running in widescreen and only 42" was available to use so you have a sizable bezel around the edges of the screen, when originally the picture would fill the whole frame.

tb2000 very wisely suggested I could try fitting a certain Sony RPTV in there, which happened to be listed for sale on Jamma+, so I thought I'd give it a go. The model is a Sony KLX-9200 50" rear projection LCD.
It's one of the last RPTV's Sony made I believe so has an incredible range of inputs and image options but importantly is 4:3 and multisync.

Fitting it was not going to be straightforward. It needed to be kept in its casing and also made to fit inside the original backbox for the cabinet so some pretty intense modifications had to be made...


We removed the LCD kit and wrapped it up safely. Then removed the entire original rear projection kit which was still in there, and that's a fair bit of kit when you pull it all out!

Then the main shelf was removed from the cab as the base of the TV would need to sit inside.


Then a section of the front had to be cut away to make the front panel fit ok. We removed ALL the internal pieces of wood, all the sensors, the wood around the edges of the screen and then the rear panel as the TV will stick out the back a few inches, this will have a cover fitted like my Chase HQ cab does. The cabinet was quite flimsy at this point.

We offered it up but the TV casing was too wide to fit. By 1/4 of an inch! Stern Smile

So it was time to do some more modifications...


It was carefully measured before we took to it with the saw. It felt really wrong to do this but, no going back now LOL

And there goes 1/4" of the case.


Measurements all look good now. It should fit exactly.


Thank f*ck for that! It's a perfect fit, and the original metal bezel fits right over it.


So it's a good result. I've taken some pics on my decent camera to show the quality of the picture now I'll stick in the next post. It was well worth doing, and it really does look amazing when you're sat in the seat as it pretty much fills your field of vision.

Thanks to tb2000 for thinking of doing this, and then for doing most of the destruction modifications which he seemed to enjoy a little too much LOL

Pros and Cons to this....

Cons

Have to significantly alter the original PTV cabinet which makes it quite flimsy.
It takes a long time to do and is a 2 man job.
You have to hack up a nice TV.
Have to cut air holes and sensor holes for the replacement screen fan and remote.

Pros

The picture is bloody amazing.
Screen size and aspect are how it was originally meant to look.
The TV is free voltage so you can run it off the original 110v monitor feed.
No hacking to the wiring, just had to join together a power feed that was already in the cab.
The whole thing still runs off one socket.
It really looks bloody amazing.



Replies:
Posted By: muddymusic
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2015 at 7:05pm


The original OutRun monitor looks like a postage stamp against this Shocked










Posted By: Hurray Banana
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2015 at 7:05pm
That olly is a ridiculous picture, nice


Posted By: virtvic
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2015 at 7:22pm
Great! - Now get 3 wonders or Bank Panic on there and it will be amazing! LOL


Hmm - Bank Panic with a steering wheel?


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Posted By: WTGBoab
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2015 at 7:33pm
Wow... That looks incredible!


Posted By: neil1637
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2015 at 7:34pm
Ridiculously good!!

A brave man taking a handsaw to a TV. Must've felt really wrong! He he.

Top notch job and an awesome finished picture.

Congrats

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Posted By: Beaps
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2015 at 7:34pm
Oh my, what can I say. Looks jaw dropping to me. I am a stickler for things like picture quality but to me I don't thing you could get any better.

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Posted By: anj
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2015 at 7:47pm
that's cool , looks a lot better than wide screen


Posted By: tb lilley
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2015 at 7:55pm
Nice work. Well played.


Posted By: griffo83x
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2015 at 8:00pm

those boarders on the original pic were terrible :(

looks loads better now :) , But that gap on top of the monitor would do my head in.



Posted By: muddymusic
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2015 at 8:02pm
Originally posted by Beaps Beaps wrote:

Oh my, what can I say. Looks jaw dropping to me. I am a stickler for things like picture quality but to me I don't thing you could get any better.

I genuinely think this is now the best this game could ever look on this setup. At this size there are little bits of detail I've never noticed before, and the HDR effects are more intense. I think this must be comparable to the day this left the factory with a brand new perfectly set up rear projection screen. We probably spent about 8 hours getting the work done.


Posted By: Buttonbasher
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2015 at 8:03pm
The difference is incredible, top work


Posted By: muddymusic
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2015 at 8:06pm
Originally posted by griffo83x griffo83x wrote:

those boarders on the original pic were terrible :(

looks loads better now :) , But that gap on top of the monitor would do my head in.


There isn't a gap - The bezel fits exactly up to the visible screen area. The topper wasn't fitted properly until the last set of photos so it just appears that way.


Posted By: griffo83x
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2015 at 8:12pm
cool  :), it was not obvious in you later photos , but its all i could see in the earlier ones. that gap would of drove me mad  LOL . awesome cab :)


Posted By: Urgentemente
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2015 at 8:19pm
It looks amazing even just on a photo, can't imagine how good it looks in real life , great job :)



Posted By: lespotts
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2015 at 8:34pm
Well done Olly, looks great!


Posted By: mr_ppp
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2015 at 8:56pm
Awesome cab and awesome work done!


Posted By: devtty0
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2015 at 9:02pm
wow, the difference in screen size is crazy!


Posted By: tb2000
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2015 at 9:33pm
Looks the business! Thumbs Up I didn't really enjoy it (might have seemed that way! LOL), seemed wrong to remove all the original stuff, to be honest if the original CRT rear pro was working and this 4:3 Sony hadn't come up for sale I would've recommended re-tubing the monitor (the originals had severe burn). Can be done fairly easily with the right tubes from a TV (even 16:9 ones as they use 4:3 tubes). Just to say though, this 4:3 Sony isn't a TV as such as there's no tuner, I think it's actually called a data display or something like that! I'd have thought that Wells Gardner (the manufacturer of the lcd screen) would've made 4:3 displays to fit these machines - presumably they use someone else's lcd panel and don't manufacture their own (just fit their own electronics) so had to make it 16:9. Looked ok but nowhere near as good as the 4:3! Smile


Posted By: ColinD
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2015 at 9:44pm
That's super sweet :-)  Nice work 


Posted By: K1ngarth3r
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2015 at 9:56pm
Looks amazing, great job!


Posted By: Outrun2
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2015 at 4:41pm
Looks absolutely storming mate! That picture is gorgeous, well worth all the effort and so much nicer than a widescreen LCD. Love Sony TVs so what an unstoppable combination with a great Sega cab

..and love seeing the cab right next to an original OutRun - look at the difference in size!!

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Would like:
No more cabs.. please!!


Posted By: nurtuo
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 1:45pm
Lovely Work there Olly. 

Silly Question, do you remember the Model number of the Sony TV?

Smile


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You're Cool, The Engines Hot, The Girl Is Gorgeous, A Tankful Of Gas And An Open Road......The Rest Is Up To You!


Posted By: muddymusic
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 1:50pm
Yeah it's in the mass of text LOL

Sony KLX-9200


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Posted By: nurtuo
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 1:54pm
Originally posted by muddymusic muddymusic wrote:

Yeah it's in the mass of text LOL

Sony KLX-9200
 

Sorry my fault, the words on the screen were blurred by me dribbling on it.

LOL


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You're Cool, The Engines Hot, The Girl Is Gorgeous, A Tankful Of Gas And An Open Road......The Rest Is Up To You!


Posted By: muddymusic
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 1:59pm
Funny reading through this again. I still can't believe we took a saw to it like that!


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Posted By: nurtuo
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 2:01pm
Originally posted by muddymusic muddymusic wrote:

Funny reading through this again. I still can't believe we took a saw to it like that!
 

Looking back, would you have done anything different?


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You're Cool, The Engines Hot, The Girl Is Gorgeous, A Tankful Of Gas And An Open Road......The Rest Is Up To You!


Posted By: muddymusic
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 2:07pm
Yeah - kept the bloody cab LOL

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Repro Arcade Artwork supplier, pm me or visit arcadeartshop.com


Posted By: nurtuo
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 2:31pm
Originally posted by muddymusic muddymusic wrote:

Yeah - kept the bloody cab LOL
 


LOL Now I have dropped my coffee laughing!



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You're Cool, The Engines Hot, The Girl Is Gorgeous, A Tankful Of Gas And An Open Road......The Rest Is Up To You!


Posted By: sosfx
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 10:21pm
Quality mate, it looks amazing. I did think about doing this when I was sorting out my 50' cab but went with a projector in the end, couldn't find any 50' TV's at all. think that most have gone to landfill :(



Posted By: John Bennett
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 10:52pm
Finding a 50" 4:3 rear-projection TV is incredibly hard. I've seen maybe a couple in a year.

Finding one that's also VGA resolution is near impossible, sadly.

I know I mentioned it on the other thread, but putting an ultrashort projector inside the existing 50" 4:3 monitor box is pretty-much making your own rear-projection monitor.


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Posted By: jfs9999
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2020 at 9:28am
Hello John Bennett.

Do you know (reference) a good ultra short projector that can be put inside a 50" 4/3 cabinet (15khz)? I want to replace my faulty Mitsubishi projector in my sega megalo cabinet. 
Thank for your advises. 


Posted By: John Bennett
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2020 at 9:50am
Originally posted by jfs9999 jfs9999 wrote:

Hello John Bennett.

Do you know (reference) a good ultra short projector that can be put inside a 50" 4/3 cabinet (15khz)? I want to replace my faulty Mitsubishi projector in my sega megalo cabinet. 
Thank for your advises. 

Yeah, please keep the projection! There was a lot of discussion in this thread though:
http://www.ukvac.com/forum/house-of-the-dead-3-projector_topic373443.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.ukvac.com/forum/house-of-the-dead-3-projector_topic373443.html

In short, if you want to keep the mirror and put the projector near to the original CRTs go, then you need a keystone of 40 degrees (a lot). But you can do it from behind without the mirror using an even shorter throw projector. 

I'll have a think and get back to you. 


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Posted By: jfs9999
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2020 at 10:18am
Thanks John!

I ve read the topic about HOD3 but can't find a good VP reference.


Posted By: david656
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2020 at 11:22am
Just to echo previous discussions with John and others, I have a HOTD2 super deluxe that I want to fit some sort of 50" rear projection option, and it needs to have VGA. 

Thanks :D


Posted By: jfs9999
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2020 at 12:56pm
@John bennett : some news?


Posted By: John Bennett
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2020 at 10:27pm
Sorry for the delay. There's a danger I'll end up repeating what I've said before, but some thoughts.

If you want to put the projector where the CRTs go (at the bottom, pointing onto the mirror), then you need: 

4:3
Throw: 0.62:1 (or shorter)
Keystone +/- 40 degrees

As for the minimum display frequency, ideally something that lists 15kHz and 24kHz if you want to play JAMMA and medium-resolution stuff. Failing that, you'll have to add a a frequency converter board (which is a mixed bag - OSSC sounds the best as it's least lag and emulates scanlines).

Sadly, I don't think there's many projectors that do that massive keystone. The Benq MW621ST does and there's at least one Acer that does, but otherwise I don't know - I'll have to look at some databases.

However... I think the projector's behind ends up sticking out of the front of the cab, which you could get away with a Megalo410 or a Daytona, where the console is pushed upto the screen, but in a Megalo50  and some other cabs, that's not viable.

So, I think you might have to experiment by removing the mirror and projecting from the rear, as in the HOT3 cab.

The depth of a Megalo50 is about 60cm, so you want something that can focus at comfortably less than that 50cm (including the length of the projector).
The throw is the projection distance (e.g. 50cm) divided horizontal size of the monitor (about 40 inch = 100cm), so 0.5 or lower.

The NEC UM280x is the projector being used in the HOT3 thread- might be worth asking orphanzombie if he's made more progress and how it looks now. The specs do say it can fit inside a Megalo comfortably.
It's all a bit experimental, so I'd go for a second hand unit off eBay for around £100 - you don't want to spend hundreds.
There's a few of the NECs on eBay, all under £100. The price reflects the lamp hours used. I think you can get replacement lamps for a reasonable price (but do check) 
I can't promise it'll work perfectly - I should buy one myself for a play around, but I don't have a 50" cab. It MIGHT work with 15kHz, otherwise you'll need a converter.


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Posted By: jfs9999
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2020 at 11:27am
Thank John Bennett, good explanation!

So  the Benq MW621ST can display 15 khz source ( because i wan't to use my Mame box in 15khz) isn't it? This model seems to be hard to find ?

Do you know is the Benq MW632ST is also a good projector to use ?


Posted By: John Bennett
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2020 at 6:34pm
Hmm, I'm not sure. 
Like the other Benq, it's not an ultra-short- throw, so it won't fit inside the monitor - it would have to stick out the front (with the image reflecting off the mirror).
They keystone is also only 30", so it might not produce a square image.
And it's £500

I think removing the mirror and trying to fit a used NEC (for <£100) would be safer experiment. If it doesn't display 15kHz, then try an OSSC or a cheaper image scaler. 


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Posted By: Orphanzombie
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2020 at 3:30pm
So i have fitted 2 of the projectors i got which are um280x had okay results but havent taken much time to tune it and really have jusy plonked them in due to time.

I have linked what i have got so far image isnt yhe best but this is due to the lenses f**king up the image as when paper is placed on the inside of the machine the image is good.

The projectors i used can take 15khz no problems and it didnt glich out and not properly sync

http://imgur.com/gallery/OXp4FDS


Posted By: John Bennett
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2020 at 5:09pm
Hmm. It's great it's 50", 4:3 and does 15kHz without an adaptor, but yeah, the picture's not overwhelming.

Are those pcitures with the back on the monitors to stop stray light.

It might be that the fresnel doesn't help at all and you'll have to remove it - I presumed they're there to straighten the light from the 3 CRTs, but as this is a single light source, I can see how it could cause distortion.
Is it a 2-part screen like TVs, so there's the fresnel and then a lenticular sheet on the very front? The sheet alone might be enough.
You can also get plastic sheets intended for rear projection setups - there's guys playing with them on the Megalo410 restoration thread on Arcade Projects.

I think I need to buy one of these NEC's for a play anyway, they're cheap enough second hand. Wonder what the lag is...


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Posted By: Sbdesign
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2020 at 5:23pm
Ive also used rear projection material, stretched around a frame and slotted in.  I too had issues with fresnel. 

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Posted By: Orphanzombie
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2020 at 5:28pm
Thats with the backs completely off too so i havent put it back together il try without the fresenal tommrow same with the back wood piece back on.

Lag is not an issue i was playing fine even with those red soldier bastards jumping out i didnt notice any lag a converter like those cheap gbs8000 or whatevers probably would add a little lag too.


Posted By: John Bennett
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2020 at 5:40pm
Yeah, it's definitely better than having a converter involved.

Great research anyway - the more cabs that can stay 50" 4:3 the better (even if it's a shame to consign mirrors and fresnels to the cupboard).

Can you remember what material you used, Sbdesign? 
You can get replacement lenticular rear projection sheets, I believe, which at least makes it look authentic from the outside (and brighter that just a white sheet). 


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Posted By: Orphanzombie
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 8:38pm
So just got out the fresenal lens but the brightness isnt as uniform which i guess what it was there for the middle of the screens very bright but the top is very low the picure i linked shows the issue well but makes it look a little worse.

Is there a different material that can be used instead of this lenticular?

http://imgur.com/gallery/WCy6trF


Posted By: John Bennett
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 8:49pm
It's fairly clear at least....

This is the Megalo thread I mentioned: 
https://www.arcade-projects.com/forums/index.php?thread/11817-sega-megalo-410/&pageNo=7" rel="nofollow - https://www.arcade-projects.com/forums/index.php?thread/11817-sega-megalo-410/&pageNo=7

I don't see the name of a material actually mentioned though...



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Posted By: Doctonic
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2020 at 10:00pm
Search for Holographic Rear Projection Film. A local estate agents had some attached to some hanging signage in their window lit up by a pico projector, it looked pretty good :) seemed to be a fairly even and bright image. Only issue could be that for a 50" screen you probably want to get the  152cmx131cm and that is about £100 in UK or about 65 dollar from china :)


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