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Shao-lin's Road Glitch

Printed From: ukVac.com
Category: Technical
Forum Name: Tech, Maintenance & Repairs
Forum Description: Need Help? Ask Here
URL: http://www.ukvac.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=368454
Printed Date: 24 Apr 2019 at 3:38am


Topic: Shao-lin's Road Glitch
Posted By: Vamino
Subject: Shao-lin's Road Glitch
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2019 at 10:31pm
I recently bought a couple of PCB's with slight faults, this one seems almost there so I thought I'd ease into things by looking at this one first.

The PCB is pretty clean but has some glitchy sprites.
I also noticed it seems to have some kind of adapter instead of one of the custom chips, is that factory or some sort of bootleg thingy?





I've got a logic probe but not much else!
I intend to buy a Rom burner once I find what a decent one is so I can verify whether roms are good or not, I need something to burn older stuff and Model 2/3 stuff as well.

Anyhoo.....

I've tried reseating roms/pushing down on them etc tna.

Can anyone please give me some pointers as where to start faultfinding using the probe.
I'm not even sure where I should be connecting the alligator clips to either!

I know I'm probably asking something that has already been asked a million times, but, we all had to start somewhere! LOL

Thanks. Smile


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Replies:
Posted By: Lurch666
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2019 at 3:54am
1st thing I would try is adjusting voltage.
Don't know if it's a bootleg but if it is they sometimes need a sightly higher voltage.
I have a mr do that does the same thing until I up the voltage a bit.


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You rang......?


Posted By: Vamino
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2019 at 11:15am
It was sold to me as an orginal mate.
There's some Konami silkscreening on the PCB so I'm 99% sure it's an orginal.

Voltage is 5v at the edge connector and 4.9v at the chips at the back of the board.

I know I need more stuff to faultfind which I'll buy in due course, but I have a MegaZone board with a faulty ram issue and I just wanted to ease into using the probe before tackling that. I just don't know how or where i should be connecting the alligator clips on the probe. I thought the thing used batteries. Embarrassed


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Posted By: ataridude74
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2019 at 11:30pm
Certainly looks original judging by the silkscreening and Konami logo on the chip(s).

Could well be a bad ROM, get a cheap MiniPro programmer to read them, it can program older chips too (not 2716s, but will do 2732s instead).

Attach the probe leads to +5v and ground.

Good luck, it's a great game, used to play it on the Spectrum, surprisingly good conversion.


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Living in the Bronze Age


Posted By: Vamino
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2019 at 11:59am
Thanks mate.
Yeah I really enjoyed playing this BITD, I could spend hours and hours on a credit. The music is ace. Smile

I've been testing the probe a bit but I seem to have a knack of reseting the board when probing. I'm not sure what setting to switch the probe to, TTL or CMOS and MEM or PULSE....I guess I have to read up a bit more then before I cause damage.

I've also been reading up on programmers but can't decide which one to go for as I don't know what chips are common. I need one that burns older stuff like chips on the older Konami PCB's to larger chips from Model 3 games and maybe the odd Naomi bios as well.

I'd like to be able to check if some chips are good or bad as well, but from reading some forums it seems to be a bit hit and miss with some chips. The feeling I'm getting is to replace all fujitsu chips as they are known to fail?

Either the Wellon VP598 or GQ-4X4 seems the one to go for?

What a minefield it all is!!!


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Posted By: NivagSwerdna
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2019 at 12:18pm
Board looks original but with Konami 083 custom replaced with genuine Konami alternative board.
A video of the issues might be easier to understand.
The video logic in this board is quite complex by comparison with many contemporary Konami designs, not simple... but the vast majority of it seems to be working well.


Posted By: Vamino
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2019 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by NivagSwerdna NivagSwerdna wrote:

Board looks original but with Konami 083 custom replaced with genuine Konami alternative board.
A video of the issues might be easier to understand.
The video logic in this board is quite complex by comparison with many contemporary Konami designs, not simple... but the vast majority of it seems to be working well.


Thanks for the input mate. Smile

I just took a capture from the board showing the issue:



Ah, so the adapter board is original then, that's interesting Konami did that. I've seen boards with the custom chip and with these riser boards fitted but I didn't know if they were aftermarket or not.

If one of the customs is bad, I do have a spare Time Pilot 84 PCB which shares some of the same customs. Unfortunately the customs on this PCB are soldered rather than having sockets on the TP84.

Thanks again.


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Posted By: Lurch666
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2019 at 4:57pm
that looks like either eprom or sprite ram addressing.
use mame to see which eproms are the sprite graphics,identify what type of eprom they are,look up the pinout then check the address lines and the data lines.If one isn't pulsing that might be your problem.


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You rang......?


Posted By: NivagSwerdna
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2019 at 11:01pm
http://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iB9BJaEpAufgKaz758FiDDekUH8JreoTn276yPqD-kk/edit#gid=0%20" rel="nofollow - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iB9BJaEpAufgKaz758FiDDekUH8JreoTn276yPqD-kk/edit#gid=0 has a pretty definitive list of customs on this vintage of board.
Quite useful.

In this case.... the 082 seems to be working well.  I guess check/re-burn sprite ROMs is the first choice although the symptoms look a bit a bit of sprite addressing logic... tricky...


Posted By: Vamino
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 1:12am
Originally posted by Lurch666 Lurch666 wrote:

that looks like either eprom or sprite ram addressing.
use mame to see which eproms are the sprite graphics,identify what type of eprom they are,look up the pinout then check the address lines and the data lines.If one isn't pulsing that might be your problem.


Thanks, I'm not sure how to use Mame to find out something that mate.
I've downloaded the Kicker installtion manual with the schematics so will have a look at the pinout when I have some time to tinker then give it a good probe!

Originally posted by NivagSwerdna NivagSwerdna wrote:

http://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iB9BJaEpAufgKaz758FiDDekUH8JreoTn276yPqD-kk/edit#gid=0%20" rel="nofollow - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iB9BJaEpAufgKaz758FiDDekUH8JreoTn276yPqD-kk/edit#gid=0 has a pretty definitive list of customs on this vintage of board.
Quite useful.

In this case.... the 082 seems to be working well.  I guess check/re-burn sprite ROMs is the first choice although the symptoms look a bit a bit of sprite addressing logic... tricky...

I was looking at that page yesterday comparing the customs on the different Konami PCB's, the only one on Kicker that's not shared with Time Pilot 84 are the 504 and 085 customs.

I guess I need to buy a burner to check the sprite ROM's then take it from there!

Thanks again for the inout guys. Smile


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Posted By: Lurch666
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 2:16am
Back on my maine pc now.

GFX1 is A10 and A11 (ko6 and ko7)
GFX2 is H14 and H15 (ko1 and ko2)

Post what type of eprom they are.They will probably be something like 27c64 or 27256



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You rang......?


Posted By: Vamino
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 11:54am
Originally posted by Lurch666 Lurch666 wrote:

Back on my maine pc now.

GFX1 is A10 and A11 (ko6 and ko7)
GFX2 is H14 and H15 (ko1 and ko2)

Post what type of eprom they are.They will probably be something like 27c64 or 27256



Thanks for that.

The writing on the ROM chips are:
MBM27128-30
TMM2764D

Are there many chips compatible with these that are normally used on this era of games?

Thanks.


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Posted By: NivagSwerdna
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 12:12pm
If it was me I would swap the ROMs at H14 and H15 and then take a look.
If the locations of the glitches move... It is the ROMs... If they don't it is the logic.
H14 and H15 should be the same size... Please check.


Posted By: Lurch666
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 12:26pm
Originally posted by NivagSwerdna NivagSwerdna wrote:

If it was me I would swap the ROMs at H14 and H15 and then take a look.
If the locations of the glitches move... It is the ROMs... If they don't it is the logic.
H14 and H15 should be the same size... Please check.


Good idea.The graphics will be messed up but you should be able to see if the lines are in different places on the sprites.

If swapping the eproms makes no difference look up the pinouts for the eproms and check the data and address lines to see if they are all pulsing.

The 27128 and 2764 are common eproms that most burners can handle.
I have a cheap TOP853 that does all standard types of eproms including these.



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You rang......?


Posted By: Vamino
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 12:41pm
I just swapped around the ROM chips whilst I still have the PBC out.



Just like you guys said, it seems to be a logic problem as the lines are in the same place.
I'll have a mooch on the schematics and see if I can see what pins to probe.

I'm still working out what burner to buy. I may try and snag a cheap one from somewhere to play with before I buy something more expensive for model 3/Naomi stuff.

Thanks.


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Insert Coin[s]


Posted By: NivagSwerdna
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 6:39pm
Interesting that the glitches seem to be approx 4 pixels apart and in horizontal lines perhaps...
I don't completely understand the operation of this board but I think the two RAM chips above the ROMs are a line buffer type arrangement so it could be one bit of them. I think they are read and written by the 502 custom?
I will bow out now and watch someone more competent step in.
My copy of the schematic is barely legible but I think I would swap/replace those RAMs next.


Posted By: Vamino
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 6:40pm
So I've had a bit of a probe whilst the attract screen was running and found the following on the 2 ROM's, KO1 and KO2.

N=nothing
L=Low
LP=Low pulse

----KO2----
---Notch---
N----------N
LP---------N
LP---------LP
LP---------LP
LP---------LP
LP---------LP
LP---------L
LP---------LP
LP---------L
LP---------LP
L----------LP
LP---------LP
LP---------LP
L-----------LP

----KO1----
---Notch---
N----------N
LP---------N
LP---------LP
LP---------LP
LP---------LP
LP---------LP
LP---------L
LP---------LP
LP---------L
LP---------LP
LP---------LP
LP---------LP
LP---------LP
L-----------LP

Comparing the 2 ROM's, KO1 has a low pulse on one pin (LH side 4th pin up) whereas the KO2 Rom is stuck low. Is this something to be concerned about?

I'm trying to read the schematics but the writing isn't clear, I guess tracing the traces using a continuity test is the next option to try and trace further back in the circuit.

By the way, I've bought an older Wellon 290 for what I think is a reasonable price.
Need to get a rom eraser and some spare roms for my other boards now then.

Thanks.


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Posted By: Vamino
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 7:04pm
Originally posted by NivagSwerdna NivagSwerdna wrote:

Interesting that the glitches seem to be approx 4 pixels apart and in horizontal lines perhaps...
I don't completely understand the operation of this board but I think the two RAM chips above the ROMs are a line buffer type arrangement so it could be one bit of them. I think they are read and written by the 502 custom?
I will bow out now and watch someone more competent step in.
My copy of the schematic is barely legible but I think I would swap/replace those RAMs next.


Just edited the previous post as I got KO1 and KO2 mixed around.

We must be reading the same schematic! LOL
Man it's so difficult to read.

I think you are correct in saying custom 502 and also 503 has something to do with the graphics. I'm tempted to swap out the 502 and 503 customs from my Time Pilot 84 PCB but would need to fit sockets to the Shaolins Road PCB, I don't have any sockets though, nor do I have a decent soldering iron but that the next thing on the list to buy.


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Insert Coin[s]


Posted By: NivagSwerdna
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 9:03pm
The customs are hard to come by so don't tinker unless you need to but it might come down to that, hold tight on those I reckon.
The video hardware on this board is interesting... I think a 6116 RAM is used for character generation along with the two GFX1 ROMs... you have no problems there.
On the sprite side there are two RAM chips (marked strangely as 2009 on the schematic??) for sprite selection, then the two GFX2 ROMs and some bit moving logic and finally a pair of 2149 fast RAM (1Kx4) chips which I think forms a type of line buffer (?).  I believe the 502 is a simple blitter for the sprites to line buffer but I'm not sure.
FWIW I have a bootleg in front of me which has 3x M58725P (aka 6116) and 2x HM6148P (aka 2149).
Tricky things these boards Smile



Posted By: Vamino
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 9:59pm
Originally posted by NivagSwerdna NivagSwerdna wrote:

The customs are hard to come by so don't tinker unless you need to but it might come down to that, hold tight on those I reckon.
The video hardware on this board is interesting... I think a 6116 RAM is used for character generation along with the two GFX1 ROMs... you have no problems there.
On the sprite side there are two RAM chips (marked strangely as 2009 on the schematic??) for sprite selection, then the two GFX2 ROMs and some bit moving logic and finally a pair of 2149 fast RAM (1Kx4) chips which I think forms a type of line buffer (?).  I believe the 502 is a simple blitter for the sprites to line buffer but I'm not sure.
FWIW I have a bootleg in front of me which has 3x M58725P (aka 6116) and 2x HM6148P (aka 2149).
Tricky things these boards Smile



And here's me thinking that the older boards would be easy to start off with! LOL
To be honest, it's interesting learning how PCB's work, so thanks for explaining things nicely to me. Smile

I've just been probing around some chips and noticed a couple of legs on chips at c10 and c11 are showing high + low at the same time but pulsing, maybe it's pulsing high to low super fast that the probe can't keep up? Do you have any idea if that's normal? I thought chips were either pulsing in a high or low state? Confused

I think once I get the burner I'm gonna dump the ROM's and test them in Mame and see what happens. That should rule out for sure if the ROM's are either good or bad.

I never ever thought I'd be using Mame as a way of testing stuff, it's a shame you can't somehow use Mame to compare how the chips pulse away. A graphic of the PCB with flashing pins that you could zoom in on would be awesome.

Thanks.


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Posted By: NivagSwerdna
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 10:21am
After pondering for a while I am thinking... Could be as simple as a rusty GFX2 ROM socket... Try and clean the ROM legs and insert a couple of times carefully... Check continuity, particularly on the address lines from the chip to the track below and onwards. Looks like just 1 bit is a problem.
Replace the GFX2 ROM sockets first.


Posted By: Lurch666
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 10:28am
Pin 11 of KO2 should be pulsing.
If you google 27128 and check the pinout its Q0 which is the first dataline.
See if you can follow the trace (a multimeter with continuity is handy for this) or look at the schematic and see what it connects to.
It might be a damaged trace since it's a data line and the rest of the board is running.


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You rang......?


Posted By: Vamino
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 10:56am
Thanks for the info guys, it's appreciated. Thumbs Up
Really useful to have some info to go on.

Is contact cleaner Ok to use on something like this? Clean, legs then spray some cleaner into the socket and reseat the ROM a few times, obviously waiting for the cleaner to evaporate before testing?

I'm gonna add a fiberglass pen and some sockets to the shopping list for future use.

Thanks.


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Posted By: Lurch666
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 11:27am
Looks like that missing signal goes to either pin 4 or pin 6 of H16-I can't tell which eprom is which on the schematic.
Can you see any markings on H16?



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You rang......?


Posted By: Vamino
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 12:07pm
KO2 definitely terminates at Pin 4 on H16, I get continuity.
It's the 083 custom and it's pulsing away low.

Does that suggest a failed ROM to you mate?




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Posted By: Lurch666
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 1:22pm
On the previous page where you showed the logic state of KO1 and KO2 pin 11 of KO2 was showing low and not pulsing.
You should not be getting pulsing at pin 4 of H16 since it's only connected to pin11 of KO2.
Can you verify the state of pin11 of KO2.


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You rang......?


Posted By: NivagSwerdna
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 1:27pm
The fact that the colours for the majority of sprite pixels is correct suggests that this is an address side issue rather than a data side one. I would be interested to check continuity on the address side... Pin 8 on the ROMs to each other? And back to Pin 12 on the 503 custom?
Pins 3 through 10 on both ROMs should connect to each other at least.


Posted By: Vamino
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 1:28pm
Originally posted by Lurch666 Lurch666 wrote:

On the previous page where you showed the logic state of KO1 and KO2 pin 11 of KO2 was showing low and not pulsing.
You should not be getting pulsing at pin 4 of H16 since it's only connected to pin11 of KO2.
Can you verify the state of pin11 of KO2.


Just checked, pin 11 on KO2 which the the 4th pin up on the LH side .
As per the pic on my 1st post, it's definetly stuck low and not pulsing mate.


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Posted By: Vamino
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 1:38pm
Originally posted by NivagSwerdna NivagSwerdna wrote:

The fact that the colours for the majority of sprite pixels is correct suggests that this is an address side issue rather than a data side one. I would be interested to check continuity on the address side... Pin 8 on the ROMs to each other? And back to Pin 12 on the 503 custom?
Pins 3 through 10 on both ROMs should connect to each other at least.


I've just done a continuity test on pins 1 - 14 on ROM's KO1 and KO2, all have continuity except for pins 11 + 12 + 13.

Both KO1 and KO2 ROM's at pin 8 have continuity to pin 12 on the 503 custom.


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Posted By: Lurch666
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 2:20pm
Originally posted by Vamino Vamino wrote:


Just checked, pin 11 on KO2 which the the 4th pin up on the LH side .
As per the pic on my 1st post, it's definetly stuck low and not pulsing mate.


That's puzzling.Since pin 11 on KO2 is only connected to pin 4 of H16 they should both be reading the same.
I agree with NivagSwerdna that it looks like an addressing problem but this could indicate a problem with the custom.

Remember I'm no expert.I fix boards by looking for what's wrong then trying to figure out which chip is responsible.
This means I usually change a lot of chips I don't need to as sometimes I chase the wrong thing.


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You rang......?


Posted By: Vamino
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 2:44pm
Originally posted by Lurch666 Lurch666 wrote:

Originally posted by Vamino Vamino wrote:


Just checked, pin 11 on KO2 which the the 4th pin up on the LH side .
As per the pic on my 1st post, it's definetly stuck low and not pulsing mate.


That's puzzling.Since pin 11 on KO2 is only connected to pin 4 of H16 they should both be reading the same.
I agree with NivagSwerdna that it looks like an addressing problem but this could indicate a problem with the custom.

Remember I'm no expert.I fix boards by looking for what's wrong then trying to figure out which chip is responsible.
This means I usually change a lot of chips I don't need to as sometimes I chase the wrong thing.


I had a brain fart mate, pin 11 on KO2 is connected to pin 6 on H16 and they are both doing the same thing, IE stuck low. Pin 11 on KO1 is connected to Pin 4 on H16 and they are both pulsing.

Sorry about the confusion! Embarrassed


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Posted By: Vamino
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 2:49pm
Originally posted by Lurch666 Lurch666 wrote:

Originally posted by Vamino Vamino wrote:


Just checked, pin 11 on KO2 which the the 4th pin up on the LH side .
As per the pic on my 1st post, it's definetly stuck low and not pulsing mate.


That's puzzling.Since pin 11 on KO2 is only connected to pin 4 of H16 they should both be reading the same.
I agree with NivagSwerdna that it looks like an addressing problem but this could indicate a problem with the custom.

Remember I'm no expert.I fix boards by looking for what's wrong then trying to figure out which chip is responsible.
This means I usually change a lot of chips I don't need to as sometimes I chase the wrong thing.


It doesn't matter if you are an expert or not mate, you have helped me loads with trying to learn how to do this stuff. I came into this with no knowledge whatsoever, sometimes it feels like it's some sort of secret society fixing PCB's! LOL


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Posted By: NivagSwerdna
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2019 at 9:45am
More pondering... I am a bit sceptical since if one bit of data was going missing from the ROM then I would expect more corruption but...
You could gently bend up that pin so it was disconnected and then see what happens... See if it stays low when not loaded by the 083 custom. From previous reverse engineering of 083s it seems that pin 4 is an input to a internal shift register, I would have expected all sorts of multiplexing hell to have broken out if that was the issue.

I have a cheapo TL866CS clone to read/write UVEEPROMs... I find it rather confusing but it mostly works.

If you want me to verify your ROMs, pm me and pop em in the post, although you probably have someone local. You could also construct a ROM reader very easily if you have a 5V arduino and a breadboard!


Posted By: Lurch666
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2019 at 11:32am
would connecting a wire to ground and then touching another data pin on the chip work as well.
Maybe ground an address pin as well.
If you can recreate the glitch on another part of the sprite that's a pointer to your problem.


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Posted By: NivagSwerdna
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2019 at 12:03pm
IMHO You should avoid shorting outputs. (... and inputs)

By the way... I can now see there is actually a distinction between tiles and sprites and your tiles appear good. I think that should be telling us something... I never really worked out how the 502 section works.. if someone can explain that would be appreciated.


Posted By: Lurch666
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2019 at 1:29pm
I've crashed a few pcb shorting pins to ground but never damaged one.
BUT I tend to work on bootlegs (cheaper) and I tend to take a "anything is worth a try" approach.


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Posted By: NivagSwerdna
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2019 at 2:03pm
... and another thing... Have you noticed how the main characters top line of his head flashes as he moves left and right... That's more an overlay, collision thing than a bitmap generation thing?


Posted By: John Bennett
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2019 at 2:13pm
I've knacked stuff shorting to ground or 5V. Use a 1k resistor on a bit of wire if that's the approach, but it's still risky as you can blow outputs on delicate stuff even with that. Best to hone-in on the problem before doing stuff like that. Schematics help lots - it's mostly variations on common themes.
If running your fingers along stuff makes things happen, that's sometimes an indicator of an issue. Just don't assume it's the pin you're actually touching (could be anything on that net).

I know it's not a cheap option, but I like a digital scope on stuff. You get used to what counts as a logic high (it's far below 5V!) and can see stuff that's dead or near-dead. Get an EPROM reader of course, too.


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Posted By: Vamino
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2019 at 2:32pm
Thanks for the suggestions guys, it's really appreciated.


I've bought a used Wellon 290 burner for a reasonable price, some ROMS and sockets. Just waiting on them to arrive now!

I do have a few pcbs to check so will probably end up getting a scope if I can find one cheap enough.

So I'll check the roms, if the problem still persists then replace the 2 sockets and after that see if the concensus is to then try swapping the customs over from a known worker.

Thanks.

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Posted By: NivagSwerdna
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2019 at 1:58pm

I installed MAME, took the H14 ROM, turned all the least significant bits off and ran it (from command line 'mame64 kicker')
Look familiar? Smile You even get the flashing line on the head effect.  (Presumably due to a confusion over which colour is considered transparent).



Posted By: Vamino
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2019 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by NivagSwerdna NivagSwerdna wrote:




I installed MAME, took the H14 ROM, turned all the least significant bits off and ran it (from command line 'mame64 kicker')
Look familiar? Smile You even get the flashing line on the head effect.  (Presumably due to a confusion over which colour is considered transparent).




Thats awesome mate!
I need to learn how to use mame to that kind of stuff.

To be honest yesterday I had a little tinker after work, I bent pins 11 on ROMS ko1 and ko2 so they weren't in the sockets and there were still lines through the graphics.

I was a little tired and ended up putting in ROM ko1 backwards which has damaged the rom, lesson learned not to tinker when tired lol.

Once I get the new ROMS I'll report back.

Really appreciate the time you guys have spent helping me.

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Posted By: Lurch666
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2019 at 2:37pm
Wow I didn't know you could do that.
I heard of people using mame to check stuff but never delved into it.

Will have to now.


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Posted By: NivagSwerdna
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2019 at 5:07pm
Originally posted by Vamino Vamino wrote:

 I was a little tired and ended up putting in ROM ko1 backwards which has damaged the rom, lesson learned not to tinker when tired lol.
It's a learning experience; I've done things I shouldn't have out of frustration... best take it slow.  Unfortunately some of these chips are almost unobtainium so best to not short, reverse too many things. Smile


Posted By: Vamino
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2019 at 8:03pm
I received the ROMS today, I bought 15 of MBM27128-30, and 15 of M5L2764K.

M5L2764K MITS 85+ DIP28
MBM27128-30 FUJI 84+ DIP28

I'm using a Wellon VP-290 programmer.
I've just wasted 3 hours pi$$ing about and I'm about to throw everything in the bin!

The programmer reads a ROM taken off the PCB, I save the ROM file then use a website to upload it to verify it. It comes back a ROM from Shaolins Road so I'm definitely saving it correctly.
But I'm baffled as to how to get this thing to burn a ROM! I've tried flipping everything, each time it fails.

Have I bought some ROM's where I need to spend 500 quid on a burner from the 80's that runs in DOS that can actually burn these types of ROMS correctly? Seriously, this has completely done my head in.

I suppose I could install XP to see if that makes a difference, I don't know what else to try here.
Anyone use a Wellon VP-290?


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Posted By: Ace`
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2019 at 8:13pm
I haven't followed this thread but if every original rom on the board dumps correctly why are you buying and burning new roms?

Are you powering the VP-290 with a power supply or just using the usb cable? usb cable only won't be enough, are you blank checking the eproms before you try to burn them?

You don't need an expensive burner for 64/128 eproms.


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Posted By: Vamino
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2019 at 8:21pm
KO2 @ H15 has failed.

I've tried using the 9v PSU, and I've tried without.
I've tried old versions of the programmer software, the latest version, tried updating the programmer etc. I can't burn a thing.

I've blank checked the ROM's and they pass, I've got an eraser on the way from China just in case but I've no idea when that will arrive.

I'm giving up for now as it's royaly done my head in.

Cheers.


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Insert Coin[s]


Posted By: Lurch666
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2019 at 8:24pm
You do know that if a rom fails it's OK to try again as long as you keep trying to burn the same image.
All the burner does is change bits from 1 to 0-it can't change a 0 to a 1.
When you blank an eprom it sets all bits to 1 then burning sets all the bits that need to be 0 to 0.

So make sure you are using the correct voltage and try to vary the speed.
Also is it failing on the blank check,the write or the verify stage?
If you have already tried to burn the eprom you need to disable the blank check as some data might have been written to the chip.


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Posted By: Vamino
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2019 at 8:51pm
I didn't know you could keep trying.

When I first tried it did write a ROM but when I compared it online it came up as from Indiana Jones!
So obviously it had corrupted somehow.

I then went through pretty much all of the 128k ROM's retrying, but each time it failed after that.
So once the eraser arrives I'll then try again.

It's failing on the write mate:

>>Initiating, Please wait...

>>Programmer initiate success!
>>Load File OK! Time:24/12/1996 23:32:00
>> 0.00Sec

>>.Blank Check......
>>Blank Check OK!
>>.Program......
>>Device Address:000002H  Device Data:FFH  Buffer Address:000002H  Buffer Data:FBH
>>Program fail!
>> 0.90Sec
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I've tried setting it to slow, I've tried disabling blank check etc.
During my pi$$ing about I'm thinking that surely it shouldn't be as troublesome as this, something just isn't right imo.

Anyway, that's me done for the night as I've had enough now! LOL

Thanks again mate.



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Insert Coin[s]


Posted By: Ace`
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2019 at 9:10pm
Bad contact between the zif socket in the programmer and the eprom pins can be a big problem with read and write errors. If you have one, stick the eprom in a socket and then in the programmer, the pins on a new socket will give a better connection than the old legs of the eprom.

Also make sure you're choosing the correct eprom manufacturer / type in the software they don't all burn the same even if they're the same type.

If it's neither of these you've got a bad batch of roms (quite common if buying from china) or a bad programmer.


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Posted By: Vamino
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2019 at 9:29pm
Yeah I did buy some sockets from RS as well, the ROM's were from a seller in Poland who had good feedback.

Anyhoo, I've just tried putting the ROM into a socket but the pins on the socket are too short for the programmer to grip onto them.

There isn't an option for the exact Fujitsu ROM's I bought, in fact there no options for Fujitsu 128 ROM's at all.  So I tried a couple of options in the list. Generic and a couple of others.

I didn't know there were differences with different ROM chips. I did spot something on another forum about choosing generic and trying to program is a couple of times so that's what I've been trying. How would I find out what other ROM chip is compatible with these Fujitsu's?

What cheeses me off is that these programmers say they support 10's of thousands of ROM's, and on paper for a beginner that looks impressive. Well, apart from this VP-290 doesn't seem program the ones I want to program!

Thanks for the help.


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Insert Coin[s]



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