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SLICE - A logic probe on steroids!

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Category: Technical
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URL: http://www.ukvac.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=372995
Printed Date: 23 Sep 2020 at 11:02am


Topic: SLICE - A logic probe on steroids!
Posted By: GadgetFreak
Subject: SLICE - A logic probe on steroids!
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 9:10pm
Several forum members know I have been working on a tester for a long time, in fact its 3 years since I first started. It took over 12 months just to find suitable hardware that would be upto the task.
I have also posted the odd screen grab during its development when posting about repairs I have done.

SLICE is a passive system which has advantages in that it requires no circuit mods to be used and tests chips at the frequencies they are meant to be used at. The downside is that good connection needs to be achieved to each pin, so cleaning is sometimes required on especially dirty/corroded chips.

SLICE is not a magic wand but like all test equipment if it is used correctly it can greatly speed up the testing and repair of PCB’s containing TTL logic, ROM and RAM IC’s.

This a list of the current IC's that can be tested:
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS00          Quad NAND Gates (2 Inputs) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS01          Quad NAND Gates (2 Inputs) (Open Collector) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS02          Quad NOR Gates (2 Inputs) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS03          Quad NAND Gates (2 Inputs) (Open Collector) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS04          Hex Inverter (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS05          Hex Inverter (Open Collector) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS06          Hex Inverter Driver (Open Collector) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS07          Driver (Open Collector) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS08          Quad AND Gates (2 Inputs) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS09          Quad AND Gates (2 Inputs) (Open Collector) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS10          Triple NAND Gates (3 Inputs) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS11          Triple AND Gates (3 Inputs) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS12          Triple NAND Gates (3 Inputs) (Open Collector) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS13          Dual NAND Gates (Schmitt-Trigger) (4 Inputs) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS14          Hex Inverter (Schmitt-Trigger) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS15          Triple AND Gates (3 Inputs) (Open Collector) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS19          Hex Inverter (Schmitt-Trigger) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS20          Dual NAND Gates (4 Inputs) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS21          Dual AND Gates (4 Inputs) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS25          Dual NOR Gates (4 Inputs & Strobe) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS26          Quad NAND Gates (2 Inputs, High Voltage) (Open Collector) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS27          Triple NOR Gates (3 Inputs) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS30          Single NAND Gate (8 Inputs) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS32          Quad OR Gates (2 Inputs) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS42          BCD Decimal Decoder (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS46          BCD To 7 Segment Decoder/Driver (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS55          Dual Quad AND Gates to OR Invert Gate (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS74        CLK     Dual D Flip Flops (Positive Edge Triggered) (v2)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS75          Quad Latch (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS83          4 Bit Binary Adder With Fast Carry (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS85          4 Bit Magnitude Comparator (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS86          Quad XOR Gates (2 Inputs) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS90        CLK     Decade Counter (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS92        CLK     Divide By 12 Counter (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS93        CLK     Binary 4 Bit Counter (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS97        CLK     Synchronous 6 Bit Binary Rate Multiplier (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS107        CLK     Dual JK Flip Flop (Negative Edge) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS109        CLK     Dual JK Flip Flop (Negative K, Positive Edge) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS112        CLK     Dual JK Master-Slave Flip Flop (Negative Edge) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS125          Quad Tri-State Buffer (Enable Active Low) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS126          Quad Tri-State Buffer (Enable Active High) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS132          Quad NAND Gates (2 Inputs) (Schmitt Trigger) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS133          Single NAND Gate (13 Inputs) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS136          Quad XOR Gates (2 Inputs) (Open Collector) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS138          Single 1 of 8 Decoder / Demultiplexer (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS139          Dual 1 of 4 Decoder / Demultiplexer (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS145          BCD Decimal Decoder (Open Collector) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS147          10 Line to 4 Line Priority Encoder (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS148          8 Line to 3 Line Priority Encoder (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS151          8 Input Multiplexer (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS153          Dual 4 Input Multiplexer (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS155          Dual 1 of 4 Decoder / Demultiplexer (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS156          Dual 1 of 4 Decoder / Demultiplexer (Open Collector) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS157          Quad 2 Input Multiplexer (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS158          Quad 2 Input Multiplexer (Inverted Outputs) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS160        CLK     Presettable BCD Decade Counter (Asynchronous Reset) (v2)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS161        CLK     Presettable Binary Counter (Asynchronous Reset) (v2)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS162        CLK     Presettable BCD Decade Counter (Synchronous Reset) (v2)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS163        CLK     Presettable Binary Counter (Synchronous Reset) (v2)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS164        CLK     Serial-In Parallel-Out Shift Register (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS166        CLK     8 Bit Shift Register (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS169        CLK     Synchronous 4 Bit Up/Down Counter (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS170          4x4 Register File (Open Collector) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS173        CLK     4 Bit D Type Register (Tri-State) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS174        CLK     Hex D Type Flip Flop (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS175        CLK     Quad D Type Flip Flop (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS190        CLK     Presettable Up/Down BCD/Decade Counter (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS191        CLK     Presettable Up/Down Binary Counter (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS193        CLK     Presettable Up/Down Binary Counter (Up/Down Clocks) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS194        CLK     4 Bit Bidirectional Shift Register (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS196        CLK     Presettable Decade Counter (Divide by 2 and 5) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS197        CLK     Presettable Binary Counter (Divide by 2 and 8) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS240          Octal Buffer (Tri-State) (Inverted Outputs) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS241          Octal Buffer (Inverted / Non-Inverted Enables) (Tri-State Outputs) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS244          Octal Buffer (Tri-State Outputs) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS245          Octal Bus Transceiver (Tri-State Outputs) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS251          8 Input Multiplexer (Tri-State Outputs) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS253          Dual 4 Input Multiplexer (Tri-State Outputs) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS257          Quad 2 Input Multiplexer (Tri-State Outputs) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS258          Quad 2 Input Multiplexer (Inverting Tri-State Outputs) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS259          Octal Adressable Latch (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS260          Dual NOR Gates (5 Inputs) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS273        CLK     Octal D Type Flip Flop (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS279          Quad Set-Reset Latch (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS283          4 Bit Binary Full Adder With Carry (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS293        CLK     4 Bit Binary Counter (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS298        CLK     Quad 2 Input Multiplexer With Storage (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS299        CLK     8 Bit Shift/Storage Register (Tri-State Outputs) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS353          Dual 4 Input Multiplexer (Tri-State Outputs) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS365          Hex Buffer Dual Common Enable (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS366          Hex Buffer Dual Common Enable (Inverting) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS367          Hex Buffer 4 Bit Plus 2 (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS368          Hex Buffer 4 Bit Plus 2 (Inverting) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS373          Octal Transparent Latch (Tri-State Outputs) (v2)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS374        CLK     Octal D Type FLip Flop (Tri-State Outputs) (v2)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS375          4 Bit Bistable Latch (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS377        CLK     Octal D Type FLip Flop (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS378        CLK     Parallel D Register with Common Enable (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS379        CLK     Quad Parallel D Register (With Q and Inverse Q Outputs) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS385        CLK     Quad Serial Adders/Subtractors (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS393        CLK     Dual 4 Stage Binary Counter (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS395        CLK     4 Bit Shift Register (Tri-State Outputs) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS399        CLK     Quad 2 Port Register (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS669        CLK     Synchronous 4 Bit Up/Down Counter (Low Power) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - 74LS670          4 x 4 Register File (Tri-State Outputs) (v1)
TTL (20 Pin) - DP8304B          Octal Bus Transceiver (Tri-State Outputs) (v1)
RAM (20 Pin) - 74LS89          64 Bit RAM (16 x 4) (Open Collector) (v1)
RAM (20 Pin) - 74LS189          64 Bit RAM (16 x 4) (Tri-State) (v1)
RAM (20 Pin) - 74LS201          256 Bit RAM (256 x 1) (Tri-State) (v1)
RAM (20 Pin) - 74LS301          256 Bit RAM (256 x 1, Open Collector) (v1)
RAM (20 Pin) - IMS1420          4096 x 4 bit Static Ram (v1)
RAM (20 Pin) - 2102          1024 Bit RAM (1024 x 1, Tri-State) (v1)
RAM (20 Pin) - 2111          256 x 4 bit Static Ram (v1)
RAM (20 Pin) - 2114          1024 x 4 bit Static Ram (v1)
RAM (20 Pin) - 2148          1024 x 4 bit Static Ram (Low Power) (v1)
RAM (20 Pin) - 2149          1024 x 4 bit Static Ram (v1)
RAM (20 Pin) - HM2504          256 Bit RAM (256 x 1, Open Collector) (v1)
RAM (20 Pin) - HM2510          1024 Bit RAM (1024 x 1, Open Collector) (v1)
RAM (20 Pin) - HM2511          1024 Bit RAM (1024 x 1) (v1)
PROM (20 Pin) - 82S123          256 bit (32 x 8) PROM (v1)
PROM (20 Pin) - 82S129          1024 bit (256 x 4) PROM (v1)
PROM (20 Pin) - 82S131          2048 bit (512 x 4) PROM (v1)
PROM (20 Pin) - 82S135          2048 bit (256 x 8) PROM (v1)
PROM (20 Pin) - 82S137          4096 bit (1024 x 4) PROM (v1)
PROM (20 Pin) - 82S147          4096 bit (512 x 8) PROM (v1)

TTL (24 Pin) - 74LS150          16 Input Multiplexer (v1)
TTL (24 Pin) - 74LS154          4 Line to 16 Line Decoder / Demultiplexer (v1)
RAM (24 Pin) - 2101          1024 Bit RAM (256 x 4, Tri-State) (v1)
RAM (24 Pin) - 6116          2K x 8 SRAM (v1)
RAM (24 Pin) - 6810          128 x 8bit RAM (v1)
RAM (24 Pin) - 93422          1024 Bit RAM (256 x 4) (Tri-State) (v1)
PROM (24 Pin) - 2516          2K x 8 Eprom (v1)
PROM (24 Pin) - 2532          4K x 8 Eprom (v1)
PROM (24 Pin) - 2716          2K x 8 Eprom (v1)
PROM (24 Pin) - 2732          4K x 8 Eprom (v1)

The Good News
SLICE is now at a point where I feel happy to sell it for other people to use.

The BAD News
It's not cheap and will cost £465 including a single 20 pin 0.3" DIP clip.

Update #1
Picture of clip on a Centipede board A9:


Screen grab of SLICE program testing the A9 chip:


Screen grab of SLICE testing a 2114 ram on Centipede:


Screen grab of SLICE performing a Signature test on Centipede:



Update #2
Originally posted by Monstermug Monstermug wrote:

Does it have any circuit protection built-in?  In case you connect it to something with say 12v by mistake. 

Each pin has an external 100ohm precision resistor but this only gives a limited amount of protection. The maker of the FPGA unit states a 6v maximum and I have used it on a device with 7.5 by mistake and didn't cause any damage but I don't recommend using it on anything above 5.5v to be safe.

Originally posted by VectorGlow VectorGlow wrote:

Also, assuming that the pins on the tested chip are clean and making good contact, how is the SLICE regarding false positives/negatives?

Each pin has an Input Divider on it which can have its voltage biased to one of 4 levels. I use this to provide a Float check function which works fairly well for checking you have good pin contact and also in finding broken PCB traces. However, the Float check will not always catch poor contacts. The DIP Clips I use are so called Knife Edge ones, so I frequently rock the clip side to side on an IC with dirty pins to help the clip bite through the dirt.
Slice decode routines are quite strict, so it is very unlikely if not impossible to get a false positive result. Though some IC's have several parameters that can be modified to adjust their maximum timings which if set to crazy values will past most IC's!
The other possibility of course is that some pins have no activity in which case Slice is not able to check them fully. This is where the Cyclic sampling with Averaging turned on comes in as you can set the software to perform multiple cycles while adding the results from each cycle to the display. If this still fails to capture certain pins changing state you can then set one or more triggers on those pins just to be certain in case the cycling just happens to miss their activity.

The FPGA unit I use is a commercial one not made by me. It's not the most expensive one that can be bought but it is also far from the cheapest. It does the job though and it does it very well giving me data at 5ns intervals for upto 300ms, this means upto 60,000,000 data points.

SLICE is not real time, it works on a Sample, Download, Process cycle. The unit connects to a PC using a standard USB port and the PC should be running a version of Windows from XP through to Windows 10.



Replies:
Posted By: Equites
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 9:25pm
Sounds great Aaron. I would be interested to know how it compares to a ABI Boardmaster 4000 for example.

-------------
Atari PCB's (and most non-Atari), AR2's, Vector Deflection/HV boards repaired & refurbished.
Wanted: Non-working Atari PCBs.


Posted By: Hurray Banana
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 9:46pm
Great to see this project getting to a release point. will be interested

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https://hurraybananavectrexhomebrew.wordpress.com/" rel="nofollow - https://hurraybananavectrexhomebrew.wordpress.com/


Posted By: Ace`
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 9:49pm
Oh nice it's finally happening, it would be great to see a video of this in action.


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http://www.ukvac.com/forum/topic353880_post968941.html" rel="nofollow - Wanted PCBs and Parts

http://notinmame.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - Not In Mame


Posted By: TheDaddy
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 10:33pm
Be interesting to see pics and vids of this running.

Dave.

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AKA Wonderboy. If there is such a thing as reincarnation , knowing my luck , I will come back as me !!


Posted By: Flinnster
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2019 at 11:07pm
Can I get a cerebral upgrade so I can justify spending £450 :)


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WTD: Outrun DLX(yes REALLY!), Rolling Thunder, PacMania
Parts WTD: Any Dino King / LnB / MushiKing Spare Parts!


Posted By: GadgetFreak
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2019 at 12:05am
Originally posted by Equites Equites wrote:

Sounds great Aaron. I would be interested to know how it compares to a ABI Boardmaster 4000 for example.

I've never used one, but from what I know it's an active system that actually drives the IC's to test them which I believes needs you to remove clock signals from the circuit under test.

To use SLICE you run the board up as normal and then use it live on the active pcb. It is a purely passive system that monitors the pins providing useful info and checking if the logic is correct. Much like hooking up 24 logic probes at the same time with intelligent analysis to check the IC is working correctly.

It also calculates clock frequencies on any clock pin, propagation delays on inputs to outputs, can read data that is accessed on ROM/PROM/RAM reads/writes and can also calculate HP style signatures on every pin of an IC at the same time. It does not work in real time. It goes through a collection, download & process cycle so the longest continuous data set is 300ms.
It also has a Project mode which allows you to group settings and results into Projects. This makes it easy to make reference projects of working boards which can then be used for comparing with faulty ones.

Originally posted by Flinnster Flinnster wrote:

Can I get a cerebral upgrade so I can justify spending £450 :)

I don't like the price point either, I would like it to be cheaper, but the hardware isn't cheap. It's reliable and accurate and allows me to get down to a 5ns sample period.


Posted By: Flinnster
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2019 at 3:25am
Wasn't about the price actually, it was about me understanding what the hell I'm doing with it Big smile


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WTD: Outrun DLX(yes REALLY!), Rolling Thunder, PacMania
Parts WTD: Any Dino King / LnB / MushiKing Spare Parts!


Posted By: dj_yt
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2019 at 7:07am
Will certainly be interested in this when released!

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http://reassembler.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow - Reassembler Blog


Posted By: GadgetFreak
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2019 at 11:00am
Updated first post with a few pics.


Posted By: bonehead
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2019 at 11:11am
Come along to the Cambridge meet as I’m sure it will be in show here today for you all to see it works and have a go.


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Wanted.,Qbert machine working or project.



Posted By: porchy
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2019 at 11:38am
I can confirm it's a stunning bit of kit. Not really used it as much as I wanted at this moment due to free time etc, but when i have used it it's been amazing for me.

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Posted By: Purity
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2019 at 12:08pm
Looks great.  I'm pretty sure I'd be interested in one


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http://www.arcadecollectors.co.uk" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Mitchell Gant
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2019 at 12:10pm
Originally posted by porchy porchy wrote:

I can confirm it's a stunning bit of kit. Not really used it as much as I wanted at this moment due to free time etc, but when i have used it it's been amazing for me.

I can say exactly the same thing, amazing kit, wish I could have more time to really use it to its full potential.


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Boy, is this a machine!


Posted By: Monstermug
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2019 at 12:14pm
Definitely be interested in this.  Does it have any circuit protection built-in?  In case you connect it to something with say 12v by mistake. 


Posted By: VectorGlow
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2019 at 12:23pm
I'm definitely very interested in this, but can we have more photos of the hardware please? I'd like to see exactly what is included. Seeing the internals would be nice too (not to ascertain the build quality but, as a repairer, I like to see the guts as it were). Big smile

In short, more details required please.

Note: I used to have a 10259A Logic Comparator, but it got on my nerves with have to use different cards and settings for each chip tested. Presumably the SLICE is far easier to setup for each chip?

Also, assuming that the pins on the tested chip are clean and making good contact, how is the SLICE regarding false positives/negatives?



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http://www.ukvac.com/forum/topic329811_post758371.html#758371" rel="nofollow - Arcade game boards repairer - formerly known as user IronGiant on Jammaplus


Posted By: Nes4life
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2019 at 1:18pm
The 'internals' of SLICE is a FPGA. The magic of it is the amazing custom cables, clips and software that Aaron has made.

Hands down the best piece of arcade repair kit I've ever had or seen. Also, Aaron's support and communication has been awesome.

Testing a different chip is as easy as clicking with the mouse. Requires a windows machine or laptop to drive it. I got a £40 compact Dell thing on the forum and that's fine.

I sold my 10259A and HP signature analyzer and haven't missed them!

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NES4Life
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Posted By: spectroman
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2019 at 1:37pm
good news, interested in one


Posted By: philmurr
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2019 at 1:47pm
As a long-ish time user of Slice I have to agree with all the positive comments being made.

It won't fix boards for you, you still need to have an idea of what you're doing, but it makes fixing them so much simpler.  Also not just arcade boards, I've fixed a couple of drum machines too using it.

Aaron has been open to ideas for new features and has almost added chips on request to the list of what can be tested.  And his support has been excellent.

Really pleased to see it finally released, it is an awesome piece of test kit.



Posted By: VectorGlow
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2019 at 2:07pm
Originally posted by Nes4life Nes4life wrote:

The 'internals' of SLICE is a FPGA. The magic of it is the amazing custom cables, clips and software that Aaron has made.

Hands down the best piece of arcade repair kit I've ever had or seen. Also, Aaron's support and communication has been awesome.

Testing a different chip is as easy as clicking with the mouse. Requires a windows machine or laptop to drive it. I got a £40 compact Dell thing on the forum and that's fine.

I sold my 10259A and HP signature analyzer and haven't missed them!


Thanks for the detailed reply. How does it connect to a PC, via a USB3 port I guess?

It sounds really great but I'd still love to see more photos of it. Smile


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http://www.ukvac.com/forum/topic329811_post758371.html#758371" rel="nofollow - Arcade game boards repairer - formerly known as user IronGiant on Jammaplus


Posted By: Equites
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2019 at 3:55pm
Originally posted by GadgetFreak GadgetFreak wrote:

Originally posted by Equites Equites wrote:

Sounds great Aaron. I would be interested to know how it compares to a ABI Boardmaster 4000 for example.

I've never used one, but from what I know it's an active system that actually drives the IC's to test them which I believes needs you to remove clock signals from the circuit under test.

To use SLICE you run the board up as normal and then use it live on the active pcb. It is a purely passive system that monitors the pins providing useful info and checking if the logic is correct. Much like hooking up 24 logic probes at the same time with intelligent analysis to check the IC is working correctly.

It also calculates clock frequencies on any clock pin, propagation delays on inputs to outputs, can read data that is accessed on ROM/PROM/RAM reads/writes and can also calculate HP style signatures on every pin of an IC at the same time. It does not work in real time. It goes through a collection, download & process cycle so the longest continuous data set is 300ms.
It also has a Project mode which allows you to group settings and results into Projects. This makes it easy to make reference projects of working boards which can then be used for comparing with faulty ones.

Originally posted by Flinnster Flinnster wrote:

Can I get a cerebral upgrade so I can justify spending £450 :)

I don't like the price point either, I would like it to be cheaper, but the hardware isn't cheap. It's reliable and accurate and allows me to get down to a 5ns sample period.


Sounds great Aaron, definitely interested in this bit of kit.

Thanks for explaining.

-------------
Atari PCB's (and most non-Atari), AR2's, Vector Deflection/HV boards repaired & refurbished.
Wanted: Non-working Atari PCBs.


Posted By: GadgetFreak
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2019 at 2:09pm
Added #Update 2 to first post answer a few more questions


Posted By: Digimon
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2019 at 2:40pm
It looks like a great impressive tool.

Absolutly interested!


Posted By: VectorGlow
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2019 at 2:53pm
Originally posted by GadgetFreak GadgetFreak wrote:

Added #Update 2 to first post answer a few more questions


Thanks for the replies.

You state that it's not real time, can you take us through a usage example? Maybe even upload a video? I'm going to assume that you simply plug it into the chip to be tested, power up the board and view the results on the PC software.

For those who wish to place an order:

a) Is the SLICE available now, for example if somebody in the UK was to order one now how long would it take for them to receive it?

b) How many do you have 'in stock' right here and now, or are you awaiting parts?

c) Can we see some photos of exactly what is included in the purchase please?

Thanks!


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http://www.ukvac.com/forum/topic329811_post758371.html#758371" rel="nofollow - Arcade game boards repairer - formerly known as user IronGiant on Jammaplus


Posted By: dj_yt
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2019 at 2:56pm
Does the fact the FPGA handles 5 ns, mean the hardware will theoretically support the 74F series, as well as LS?




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Posted By: GadgetFreak
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2019 at 8:22pm
Originally posted by VectorGlow VectorGlow wrote:

You state that it's not real time, can you take us through a usage example? Maybe even upload a video? I'm going to assume that you simply plug it into the chip to be tested, power up the board and view the results on the PC software.

With a 10ms sample period my fast laptop can achieve around 3 updates per second, but with 300ms sample period it takes around 7 seconds per update.
Originally posted by VectorGlow VectorGlow wrote:

a) Is the SLICE available now, for example if somebody in the UK was to order one now how long would it take for them to receive it?
b) How many do you have 'in stock' right here and now, or are you awaiting parts?
c) Can we see some photos of exactly what is included in the purchase please?

a: 3-4 days
b: I have 10 cable sets made up along with clips and can obtain the FPGA units usually in 24 hours. I also have pcb's and parts to make another 10 cable sets.
c: I will hopefully get a video of Slice in action posted later this week.

Originally posted by dj_yt dj_yt wrote:

Does the fact the FPGA handles 5 ns, mean the hardware will theoretically support the 74F series, as well as LS?

I have used it on boards with some F series TTL with no problems.


Posted By: VectorGlow
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2019 at 8:35pm
Thanks for the replies, I look forward to see a video of it in use. Thumbs Up


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http://www.ukvac.com/forum/topic329811_post758371.html#758371" rel="nofollow - Arcade game boards repairer - formerly known as user IronGiant on Jammaplus


Posted By: kthemall
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2020 at 4:15pm
ah ok it´s like a logic comparator. i use the fluke trendar. is also a cool tool, but this one´s better and more flexible.


thx tom



Posted By: pikadroo
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2020 at 12:26am
Oh my goodness! I want in! Tongue

Drew



Posted By: gamefixer
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2020 at 4:39pm
Ijust wanted to pop in and say this thing is fantastic! I've used it three times now and it found the bad IC on two boards relatively quickly. It helps to know which "section" of the board you think might be having problems but it really did help. 

It found a bad LS157 that two of my 3 IC testers said was good. It wasn't.

two thumbs way up for Slice and many thanks to @gadgetfreak for making it. 


Posted By: Monstermug
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2020 at 5:59pm
Yes and regular updates too with more devices, features added on all the time.  One of the most useful tool in my arsenal.  Especially if you're like me and don't have hours on end scratching your head with a logic probe.   It's like a 24 logic probes and a ttl databook all in one.  I've got such a bad memory these days, I loose count of pins and often have to keep counting legs over and over again let alone remember what each readings were Ouch 




Posted By: Ace`
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2020 at 6:14pm
Where's that video then Monstermug? Tongue


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http://www.ukvac.com/forum/topic353880_post968941.html" rel="nofollow - Wanted PCBs and Parts

http://notinmame.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - Not In Mame


Posted By: Monstermug
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2020 at 7:48pm
Oh yeah.  Forgot to upload it. 


Posted By: TheDaddy
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2020 at 8:12pm
I would love to see a vid on this too !!!

Dave.


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AKA Wonderboy. If there is such a thing as reincarnation , knowing my luck , I will come back as me !!


Posted By: Monstermug
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2020 at 9:30pm
I'm not good at making videos so don't expect too much.  


Posted By: gamefixer
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2020 at 12:10am
Originally posted by Monstermug Monstermug wrote:

Yes and regular updates too with more devices, features added on all the time.  One of the most useful tool in my arsenal.  Especially if you're like me and don't have hours on end scratching your head with a logic probe.   It's like a 24 logic probes and a ttl databook all in one.  I've got such a bad memory these days, I loose count of pins and often have to keep counting legs over and over again let alone remember what each readings were Ouch 



LOL! You must be my twin brother! I do the same things!!! 


Posted By: TheDaddy
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2020 at 12:51am
Originally posted by Monstermug Monstermug wrote:

I'm not good at making videos so don't expect too much.  


Debbie does Dallas was rubbish but we all watched it to the end lol !!

Dave.

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AKA Wonderboy. If there is such a thing as reincarnation , knowing my luck , I will come back as me !!


Posted By: Monstermug
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2020 at 12:46am
Finally had time to upload this video.  Watch it at your peril

Part 1

Part 2


Posted By: Lurch666
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2020 at 1:24am
Part 2 is set to private.
Don't keep us in suspense......


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You rang......?


Posted By: gamefixer
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2020 at 2:55am
waiting on pins and needles! Need to see video #2... 


Posted By: Monstermug
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2020 at 7:40am
Fixed Thumbs Up

You get some rare footage of me playing jailbreak with my feet LOL


Posted By: TheDaddy
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2020 at 10:02am
Nice vid Sunny - Thanks for sharing.

Dave.

P.S Just need a few with you testing TTL now

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AKA Wonderboy. If there is such a thing as reincarnation , knowing my luck , I will come back as me !!


Posted By: Monstermug
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2020 at 10:12am
Currently got a Gunsmoke on my bench.  That is packed full of TTL's.  I can make a video of that shortly after my ankle operation in a few days time.  I spent about 30 minutes or so and preliminary diagnostics is that It's not a colour prom or rom fault.  I am almost certain it's a ttl addressing issue so will need to Slice every chip from the roms (bottom board) to the colour proms (top board) which will be fun (not!).  It's jobs like this which Slice has been designed for!  

Luckily Aaron has been very helpful and provided me with slice project so I can compare each IC with his one.  Some ic's when you slice them will show up as inactive or have errors naturally so with a working board to compare (even though it's not a physical copy) will prove invaluable.  I will start the video from where I left off.  


Posted By: Lurch666
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2020 at 12:34pm
Gun.smoke-my current nemesis.
I'm slowly using the slice to check the ICs on my gun.smoke bootleg as I have no idea how to fix my current fault.


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You rang......?


Posted By: TheDaddy
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2020 at 1:11pm
Awaiting your next video sunny ........

I keep saving pennies to purchase one but sadly things keep getting in the way. I realy need one as it will save me a lot of time. 

I have spoken to Aaron and he is a great guy who is very very knowledgeable and willing to help were he can - That's always a massive plus.

Hopefully get one at some point.

Dave.


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AKA Wonderboy. If there is such a thing as reincarnation , knowing my luck , I will come back as me !!


Posted By: Lurch666
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2020 at 1:32pm
Hopefully when all this virus stuff is sorted we can meet up and you can have a play with mine....Tongue


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You rang......?


Posted By: TheDaddy
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2020 at 1:35pm
Sounds like a plan mate :-)

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AKA Wonderboy. If there is such a thing as reincarnation , knowing my luck , I will come back as me !!


Posted By: Monstermug
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2020 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by Lurch666 Lurch666 wrote:

Hopefully when all this virus stuff is sorted we can meet up and you can have a play with mine....Tongue

Make sure you wash your hands afterwards LOL



Posted By: TheDaddy
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2020 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by Monstermug Monstermug wrote:

Originally posted by Lurch666 Lurch666 wrote:

Hopefully when all this virus stuff is sorted we can meet up and you can have a play with mine....Tongue

Make sure you wash your hands afterwards LOL


I am not Angry ....... Just disappointedLOL 


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AKA Wonderboy. If there is such a thing as reincarnation , knowing my luck , I will come back as me !!


Posted By: gamefixer
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2020 at 2:30pm
Was it this project or something else where someone proposed "sharing" libraries of working game boards so that we could have a database to work from? 

I do not know what it takes to save and create these libraries but I'd be willing to submit whatever I can. 

Slice has helped me fix 3 boards in the past 2-3 weeks. It's a great repair tool! 


Posted By: Monstermug
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2020 at 3:12pm
I'm pretty sure you just create a project, then slice every ic and save the results using the location of that IC into the project.  Nobody seemed to have read the manual for some strange reason LOL

It's not only useful for others but for yourself in case your own game breaks.  

When I have time I will start slicing all my pcbs one at a time.  Will take me a whole life time but it be well worth it.  

Maybe I should start a thread when I have enough projects saved.  I'll store them all in a dropbox account and people can just download it from there.   Too much to do and so little time Geek


Posted By: gamefixer
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2020 at 3:19pm
LOL! I have to admit, I didnt spend a lot of time reading the manual. I wanted to get to the fun part, fixing boards! 



Posted By: DanP
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2020 at 5:37pm
This sounds like a job for Github.   Create a repo for these Projects and allow pull requests if someone want's to update.   Surely the real value in this tool will be if there's a large library of board data to use?

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https://ukvac.slack.com" rel="nofollow - #slack


Posted By: Monstermug
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2020 at 6:38pm
It would be nice if everyone with this unit collaborate to make this database.  I get started on all the Taito new Zealand story hardware LOL Missing plump Pop though Embarrassed


Posted By: Shinydaz
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2020 at 10:03pm
Thanks for making the video monstermug, this would sure save me alot of time.

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Out of room but always room for one more !


Posted By: Lurch666
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2020 at 10:28pm
I mostly repair bootlegs because there's less custom chips (and they are cheaper).
Would bootleg slice info be any use to people since most tend to stay away from bootlegs?


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You rang......?


Posted By: Monstermug
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2020 at 10:30pm
Bootlegs would be more probably be more useful as usually they are wildly different to the original pcbs and are a pita to repair.   If you have a robocop bootleg I could use the project file for that! 


Posted By: bones
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2020 at 1:01am
    Looks like an invaluable piece of kit, how would you go about purchasing one ?


Posted By: Lurch666
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2020 at 1:05am
Originally posted by Monstermug Monstermug wrote:

Bootlegs would be more probably be more useful as usually they are wildly different to the original pcbs and are a pita to repair.   If you have a robocop bootleg I could use the project file for that! 


I do happen to have a bootleg robocop.
I'll make a start.


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You rang......?


Posted By: GadgetFreak
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2020 at 11:59am
Originally posted by bones bones wrote:

Looks like an invaluable piece of kit, how would you go about purchasing one ?

Send me a PM on the forum (GadgetFreak)

Originally posted by Lurch666 Lurch666 wrote:

Would bootleg slice info be any use to people since most tend to stay away from bootlegs?

Some bootlegs are very close to original boards, especially the ones that just replace the customs with plug in boards. Though this can make Slicing a board a bit more of a challenge if the plugins obscure some of the TTL.

Originally posted by DanP DanP wrote:

Surely the real value in this tool will be if there's a large library of board data to use?

It is definitely added value but even without Existing Projects Slice is a useful tool.

Github could be used but generally once a Full Project for a board is made it would not need to be updated.

There are 2 levels of Projects really, the simplest is just a Project that contains all the Locations/IC's which makes it easy to get started with testing on a board.
The best Projects are ones that have also then had Results grabs done of all the locations on the board and also have all the binary ROM/PROM data added for comparison. They would also then have had the parameters for each location tweaked for timing and triggers if needed. These then allow for a direct comparison of the board under test with the Results from a working board.

When making a full Project though you need to stick to some guidelines to make it useful. Such as having Averaging turned on and say 60 Cycles for a 10ms sample. It also helps to start the Sampling at roughly the same point in the Demo sequence or having the board in a test mode. Each Result grab can have a line of text added which can be handy for any notes.

I always intend to make full projects but usually get sidetracked with fixing the board and end up with a mess of Results grabs or incomplete locations. To date I have only done a Proper project for Atari System 1 TTL main board which took me about 3 hours.



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