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Ridge Racer System 22 repairs...

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rotunda View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 Jul 2019 at 12:55pm
Hey all

It's been a while since i've posted here. Hope you are all doing well. 

I just wondered if any progress had been made on repairing System 22 boards, specifically Ridge Racer after Namco officially dropped support for them? 

Did anyone figure anything out or are they still pretty much a loss at this point if the no 3D issue occurs.

Thinking of buying another RR upright but the prospect of having a potentially very large paperweight if something goes wrong is putting me off a bit.


Ridge Racer Upright cabinet and working/broken RR PCB's wanted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brettster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2019 at 1:02pm
Still no progress as far as I've heard

Looking for More Space!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rotunda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2019 at 1:06pm
Damn, that's a shame. 

Really scary to think that once they fail it's pretty much game over... literally.

Damn you Namco and your custom IC's. Cry 

I wonder if someone gives Namco a call we could get some more information on the issue and a possible fix? 
Ridge Racer Upright cabinet and working/broken RR PCB's wanted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2019 at 2:21pm
Obsolescence affects almost everything we enjoy to some extent. I doubt the game would have been possible without custom chips.
Buy a spare boardset or two as the best option and get bits swapped over. Look at emulated solutions too - they're all a WIP.
Of course, if you can haggle the ASIC designs out of Namco for free, so we can do them 1:1 in an FPGA, then that'd be somewhat incredible, if unlikely.
http://www.philwip.com -sibling 'fix-off' (I’m losing by miles).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rotunda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2019 at 2:48pm
True.. I just find it such a shame that these things are now at risk at becoming extinct so to speak. 

I've been a massive fan of RR since 1996 and as the current WR holder for the arcade, full scale and PS1 port versions of the game I want to see this game live on for many, many more years.

Like you say though... obsolescence comes eventually. I just wish I had the knowledge and ability to keep them going for that little bit longer. I'd be more than willing to put in the time and effort if i knew where to start. I recall hearing that the traces on the boards were really fine and not to usual spec leading to problems as well as the custom chips failing. 

I also remember this video of someone saving a board set by replacing one of the smaller board sets on the side of the PCB stack. He states this is the GFX board which isn't the custom chips ROM board on the other side so maybe it's more related to the secondary GFX PCB. If this is the case surely this should be something we could replicate or repair??


To think a couple of years ago i had x2 RR boardsets, x1 RR 2 boardset and x3 Rave Racer boardsets... Man, should of kept hold of them. Cry I currently have nothing as i sold my cab after Namco dropped support for the PCB's and i was worried about mine dying and being left with a paperweight as PCB's seem pretty rare now.

Wish i could figure all this out and make a fix, i really do. 


Edited by rotunda - 09 Jul 2019 at 2:52pm
Ridge Racer Upright cabinet and working/broken RR PCB's wanted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robotech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2019 at 3:40pm
Short term thrills buy a generic upright driving cab or broken ridge racer upright cab and pad hack a ps2 into it

I had one for a while great fun
The stand up ridge racer cabs had the same happ mech and shifter fitted as a generic driver so felt the same to play to me all of the ps1 ps2 ridge racer /rave racer games ,or2 , crazy taxi ,v.r racing ect


Lots of enjoyment for the money envolved
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rotunda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2019 at 3:57pm
Indeed this is an option for sure but for me, I need to use real hardware as I like to improve on my records on Ridge Racer 1/2 and I can only do that on original hardware.

I guess this is one of the reasons i have a big interest in keeping the original stuff going. MAME is great but I want the real thing which sadly is becoming harder and harder to get hold of these days.
Ridge Racer Upright cabinet and working/broken RR PCB's wanted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZedEx48K Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2019 at 4:05pm
With boards like that the only long term solution is always going to be a PC/emulators, and if you do a good job, most will never know any different, or you buy every working board set you see :D

Personally as long as I get to play a game I like, what's inside the cab doesn't bother me, and it's the only way some people will ever get to see some games.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robotech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2019 at 4:15pm
I can see your issue with improving times on real hardware

But as more boards die with namco not doing repairs the price of the still working boardsets will climb
Now,s the time to buy one if you want original

Or go to arcade club and practice on there one :)

Edited by robotech - 09 Jul 2019 at 4:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2019 at 7:18pm
What are the emulators like for input latency? I’d imagine to some, a frame difference is a big deal.
http://www.philwip.com -sibling 'fix-off' (I’m losing by miles).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rotunda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2019 at 7:37pm
Quote Or go to arcade club and practice on there one :)

Already done :) Though I'm from the south west so sadly it's a long trip for me else I would be there most days haha! 
Ridge Racer Upright cabinet and working/broken RR PCB's wanted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2019 at 3:13am
I'd love to know were the rr and rr2 went from work when they got auctioned off when Pleasure island closed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rotunda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2019 at 3:53pm
I contacted Namco as I wanted to see if they had any information which could help us or maybe even some NOS, test equipment we could maybe buy or anything.

The reply was not good...

Quote We have not been able to repair the system 22 boards for quite a few years, due to the unavailability of components and the general age of these boards.

 

We no longer have any repair information or test rigs for these, the last few of these we repaired some years ago we had to send to our Japanese side of the company to fix, but they no longer repair these either.

 

Sorry I cannot be of any more help.


So they don't even have the test rig anymore! And not even Japan repairs them either anymore.


That's extremely depressing... I won't be buying another cab now way too much risk. Very sad news. Cry



Edited by rotunda - 10 Jul 2019 at 3:54pm
Ridge Racer Upright cabinet and working/broken RR PCB's wanted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2019 at 5:17pm
That just makes it like every other arcade game now - was quite amazing they were even fixing them this decade.
They’re not exactly rare either, which is good.
http://www.philwip.com -sibling 'fix-off' (I’m losing by miles).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rotunda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2019 at 5:44pm
Quote That just makes it like every other arcade game now - was quite amazing they were even fixing them this decade.
They’re not exactly rare either, which is good.

Good point i guess.. It was amazing to think they were still going it 25+ years after release. Props to Namco really.

Not rare? The PCB's you mean? I hope so as that's the only option now. Cry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arcman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2019 at 11:39pm
I find this reply from Namco quite staggering to be honest

"We no longer have any repair information or test rigs for these, the last few of these we repaired some years ago we had to send to our Japanese side of the company to fix, but they no longer repair these either."

Surely any brand benefits from longevity and the ability to be used. No longer to have any repair information is ludicrous ! Why not just hand it over to a dedicated community with a not for profit license. Would Namco delete the PS1 source code for ridgeracer.

I have a dlx cab when purchasing I was aware of the board issues acknowledging the cab boardset I was buying was faulty the aim was and still is to get another board set to use original hardware. The problem even with this stance I could buy a working board set for £300. The next day it could evidence the graphics glitches and then back to square one.

However I want to use the thing so I am nearly finished making it Mame convertible (i.e I can interchange in five minutes between original board and pc) using all the original parts, no wires cut, and utilising groovymame and an uhid.

Whilst this is not suited to the professional player it is the closest thing I can do for the moment and in my eyes is certainly playable.

Once I'm finally happy with it, I'll post a restoration thread and a video of it so you can see how it plays. Still a few weeks off yet.

Whilst my background is more suited to software, happy to assist if I can in any restoration attempts for the original board sets.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rotunda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2019 at 10:06am
Further information from Namco. 

Quote We moved premises around 8 months ago, to a bigger more modern building and quite a lot of bits that had not been used for a while, and possibly wasn’t going to be used again got scrapped.

 

I would assume everything relating to the system 22 boards was scrapped then, although I think they had been scrapped a number of years before as I didn’t see anything to do with these getting scrapped, and there definitely is nothing relating to these in the new building.


So even the System 22 test rig and harness were scrapped... Without this you are completely at a loss at fixing these boards. To think such a valuable item just chucked away and is now in landfill somewhere is just awful.


Still you can't blame them, they supported System 22 for longer than most would so props to them. No angry pitch forks toward them please. Just a shame we are pretty much doomed now when it comes to Ridge/Rave Racer PCB's. Without repair info or the actual diagnostic equipment available they literally cannot fix them nor provide information to those who wish to keep these going. But even with that information without the custom chips, replacement GFX boards or any other number of things which can go wrong you can't do much even with that information/equipment. So... yeah... For those who have broken boards.. it really is a MAME job at this point.


For those who have working boards... pray they keep going! Unhappy My advice to anyone with a working PCB is add another fan of the same model to the top left side of the PCB stack as I'm pretty sure heat is a contributor to failure.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brettster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2019 at 1:10pm
Namco uk Never had a Test Rig, it was just a wiring harness so that could test it on a bench, they told me this when I sent them my RR pcb for repair

Looking for More Space!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Bennett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2019 at 1:31pm
Yeah, I was thinking any ‘test rig’ just simplified the diagnosis of which chip has failed, which people can often work out by other means.

The issue is the lack of a bucket of spare custom ICs.
http://www.philwip.com -sibling 'fix-off' (I’m losing by miles).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bobbydilley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2019 at 1:38pm
@rotunda - there is a rave racer at the timewarp arcade in bridgewater, which is in the south west :)

Can someone explain this:

The reason that the boards are hard to repair etc. is that the chips are custom namco ICs right?

Ridge Racer is currently working emulated isn't it?

Does that not mean that we must know what the custom ICs do, and could just remake on in an FPGA?
https://dilley.uk/arcade
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