PC Advice

[RygarR]

Over the past 10 months of working at home, I've been putting my office PC through its paces. Sadly, the poor old thing is now on its last legs. It's had a few wobbles, and the USB3 card seems to have died. I have all my data backed up, but am now thinking I should replace the PC before something blows up. Thing is, I've lost track of PC tech and pricing over the years. So a few pointers from those in the know would be appreciated.

I need a Windows system
I won't play any games on it
While I mostly use MS Office type programmes, I also do a bit of basic graphics work, and although I render a lot of videos, I don't really need this to happen in 5x real time.
Most importantly, I'm not looking to break the bank on this. It doesn't have to be rock bottom, but I don't want to spend more than I have to.

Are there any retailers or models I should know about? Or is it still worthwhile buying the bits and putting it together myself?

Cheers!

 

[Vamino]

I'd recommend building your own.

New motherboard @ £55:

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/asrock-b450m-hdv-r40-amd-b450-am4-ddr4-m2-realtek-gbe-usb-31-gen1-microatx

New PSU @ £47

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/600w-evga-fully-wired-80plus-sli-crossfire-single-rail-49a-120mm-quiet-fan-atx-psu-black-psu

New case @ £40

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/cooler-master-masterbox-q300l-black-mini-tower-computer-chassis-w-window-micro-atx-mini-itx-120mm-fa

Cheap used Ryzen @ £80-£200:

1600/1600x2600/2600x 6 core 12 threads

1700/1700x/2700/2700x 8 core /16 threads

Used 8gb Ram @ 3000mhz or above.
If you are on a budget then lower speed is much cheaper but you lose performance.

Would recommend 16gb to future proof though, buying new is cheap enough these days:

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/16gb-2x8gb-corsair-ddr4-vengeance-lpx-black-pc4-28800-3600-non-ecc-unbuff-cas-18-135v-amd-ryzen-opti

At a later date you could add a decent graphics card which will allow you to play any new games releases. But for now you can use onboard graphics.

With prices as they are, buying ready made you are throwing money away.
My niece want's a PC and the above spec is what I'll be building her.

Vamino2021-01-24 01:02:58

 

[RygarR]

Thanks Vamino.

I've built a few PCs in the past - but not for about 15 years! So that's something to look into.

I just have one (probably stupid) question...

If I put my SSD into a new PC (single partition, Windows 10), would there be an option to restore the OS or update the drivers for the new machine? Or is that a no go? I remember years ago Microsoft only allowed you a couple of component changes per licence, but seem to remember that rule got relaxed? All my data is backed up, and my software is either web-based or freeware, so none of that is locked to the old PC.

Cheers.

 

[Vamino]

I made a boo boo, Ryzen 5 and 7 don't have onboard graphics. But you can use a cheap GPU.

I recently bought a couple of HD7450 for £12 each.

I usually reinstall windows, but I know of people who just swap over the hard drive to a new system and it installs the drivers it needs.

W10 license is pretty relaxed these days, I just use old W7 licenses when installing W10 and they work fine. I've never encountered issues not being able to to do new installations with old licenses.

 

[Brettster]

That will depend on the licence type you used for Windows 10, if it was an OEM licence then its only for the original machine. if it was a retail licence then you can do that, you may however need to call Microsoft to do telephone activation.

Failing that you could buy another licence from ebay for a fiver

 

[big10p]

Yeah, you can get legit win 10 keys on ebay for a few quid.

 

[RygarR]

Thanks Brettster and Big 10p

Just had a quick look on FeeBay, and right enough, Windows 10 Pro licences for less than a fiver. Back in the day these were maybe £50 a pop (or more depending on the type of licence). While I like the new price point, are we sure these are legit - as in, there's no chance of your PC getting locked and ransomed by Microsoft!?

 

[RygarR]

I made a boo boo, Ryzen 5 and 7 don't have onboard graphics. But you can use a cheap GPU.

I recently bought a couple of HD7450 for £12 each.

I usually reinstall windows, but I know of people who just swap over the hard drive to a new system and it installs the drivers it needs.

W10 license is pretty relaxed these days, I just use old W7 licenses when installing W10 and they work fine. I've never encountered issues not being able to to do new installations with old licenses.

No biggie. I've got a spare lying about from an old Mame PC I can use.

 

[big10p]

Thanks Brettster and Big 10p

Just had a quick look on FeeBay, and right enough, Windows 10 Pro licences for less than a fiver. Back in the day these were maybe £50 a pop (or more depending on the type of licence). While I like the new price point, are we sure these are legit - as in, there's no chance of your PC getting locked and ransomed by Microsoft!?

I've bought a couple in the past and they are legit. They're mostly taken from decommissioned corporate PCs, I think. As such, you may get Dell (or somesuch) branding, but they work fine.

 

[RygarR]

Thanks Brettster and Big 10p

Just had a quick look on FeeBay, and right enough, Windows 10 Pro licences for less than a fiver. Back in the day these were maybe £50 a pop (or more depending on the type of licence). While I like the new price point, are we sure these are legit - as in, there's no chance of your PC getting locked and ransomed by Microsoft!?

I've bought a couple in the past and they are legit. They're mostly taken from decommissioned corporate PCs, I think. As such, you may get Dell (or somesuch) branding, but they work fine.

Cool, that's good to know.

 

[Brettster]

I've used a few of those from ebay and never had any issues, but saying that you can run windows 10 unlicensed anyway just lose the customisation features but its fully usable, unlike the windows XP days

 

[penrhos]

The windows 7 to 10 upgrade still works if you have a legit windows 7 key.

 

[Venom]

Since the new asus mini pc's came out the intel are starting to drop. How about an i5 then bracket it to the vesa mount.
I get ram and disk are needed, then maybe a webcam.

I hear the intel nucs can be noisey compared to the rivals.

https://www.ebuyer.com/864769-intel-nuc-i5-8259u-nuc8i5bek-bean-canyon-small-computer-at-ebuyer-boxnuc8i5bek3

i was thinking of something similar as we are running 3 laptops with all of us at home !!

Some of them have like 6 usb ports so a bit of mame would be ok !!!

Venom2021-01-24 21:57:08

 

[RygarR]

They do look pretty nifty. But if you have to buy the extra bits, the price does start to add up. I also seem to remember reading that some of the NUC units were crippled by temperature throttling, which prevented the CPU pulling its weight. But maybe that a thing of the past?

 

[Venom]

yes I think they are noisey due to the fan trying to cool them down,and do get hot. So for kodi etc would stick to my pi 3 !!

Looking at the new Asus mini pc's but still too expensive !

Those apple macs minis are supposed to be silent but I would need windows 10 for kids !

 

[RygarR]

Inspired by Vamino's post I've now spent a fair few hours looking at PC components and specs, and remembering why I haven't done this for such a long time. The swings and roundabouts are making me dizzy. I liked the look of the Ryzen chips, especially the 3rd gen, series 5 model 3600. However, as has been pointed out already, they don't have a GPU, and if you want it in an SFF case, the only options for mobos are a bit on the steep side (really irks me that the latest models are full of useless crap like RGB lighting headers). So I've been looking at Intel's 10th gen shizz instead. Anyone rocking an i5 10500? Seems to be a sweet spot price-wise, and it's got a GPU on board. Couple that with the cheaper mini itx mobos, and it works out quite a bit less than the Ryzen. Or am I looking at all this wrong? Aarrgghh!

 

[Vamino]

My trusty encoding/streaming rig recently (10+ years old!) X58 - 6 core/12 thread Xeon recently lost 2 ram slots and has been blue screening on the first boot for a while now. I bought a new CPU but that didn't resolve the issue. So last week I bought a cheap used Ryzen 1700x and new B450 ATX motherboard, I went ATX as I need more pcie slots than mATX provides.

The plan for me is to see how the 1700x performs streaming/encoding/recording and then once I see a 3950x for a decent price I'll get that and pass on the 1700x to my niece. That should then do me for another 10 or so years hopefully.

For productivity Ryzen can't be beat on price, for gaming my old 6700k + RTX2070 still plays everything a nice framerates and still holds it's own compared to newer CPU's.

Personally I wouldn't put too much emphasis on onboard graphics. For not much money you could buy something that completely trounces the Intel 630 onboard graphics, or buy something for around 10 quid that will be perfectly adequate for desktop use.

My recommendation was based on your first post so you may have a higher budget in mind. But once you start going up in price then things can get complicated like you have discovered!

 

[RygarR]

Complicated doesn't get near it!

There are so many places online where you can find specs, benchmarks and heated discussions. But at the end of the day, you've always got to ask if the extra 10% performance is worth the 20% price premium. Or if the extra 2% performance is worth the 3.5% price hike etc. etc.

I take your point about the GPU btw. I know the Intel one is pants. Was just thinking that for tidiness and airflow in a mini ITX case, onboard would be a bit more convenient. And very low power too.

My budget isn't massive (and I wouldn't want to pump this one out in any case) but I've decided to go for new parts. Need it for work, you see. And want to minimise the risk of things dying. I've had plenty of used bits in the past, and almost all of them have been absolutely fine. But one or two haven't, and I could do without the hassle on this build...

 

[Vamino]

There's always something a bit better for a few quid more, then before you know it you've doubled your budget! When I set a budget I try to stick to it. Upgrading to Ryzen from X58 hasn't cost me much but I knew what I wanted which helped.

Yeah, I've had hassles with used stuff before, but from all my years tinkering I've not had many issues with used CPU's or ram. Hence the reason I recommended new motherboard + PSU and used Ram/CPU. I've seen 1700x sell for 70 quid and passed on one off a work colleague for 100 last year.

My current gaming rig (Z170 with 6700k) is currently housed in a Lian Li v354 mATX case which is the perfect size imo. Great cooling and I can use a cooler with a 90mm fan (Ancient but awesome Ultima 90). Smaller is nice but there are compromises.

A while back I tinkered with a Lian Li Q18 case which is basically a smaller v354, to cut a long story short I encountered much higher temps so went back to the v354 and bought a used mATX Z170 board and sold the Q18. The size difference wasn't that much but the cooling was much much better in the mATX case.

In the past I've built a encoding PC inside the Coolermaster case I linked to above and it's a great case for cooling. Magnetic filters, great airflow and great cable management. For 40 quid it's a great case imo.

Good luck!

 

[RygarR]

The deed is done.

I chose all the parts on Scan last Sunday night. According to the basket, delivery was free. But I decided to sleep on it, just in case. Come Monday morning, I was about to click 'buy', when I noticed that delivery was no longer free. In fact, there were now a range of 'options', the cheapest of which was £12-ish. Why do they do this? Whose reaction is gonna be, 'oh it's only an extra £12.45?' Mine was FU Scan. The parts were marginally more expensive elsewhere, but with free postage, it worked out cheaper all told.

As for the Windows 10 worries, there were none. I plugged the old HD into the new set up and it just worked.

The mini ITX MB and ATX PSU slotted fairly easily into my Sharkoon QB case. My only concern was the i5 CPU and stock cooler. This came with a cross shaped pad of thermal material on the bottom. While I was a bit suspiscious to begin with, and thought it might just be a temporary cover, a bit of googling suggested it was good to go the way it was - without any extra thermal paste. That's a new one for me, but I've had it on for about 5 hours now, and it seems to hovver just over 30 degrees C. So far so good...