This thread bump reminds me, I saw a WIP of Vyrzon last week and it looks great. Is it due for release any time soon? Also just spotted your cocktail Vectrex mini cab - also great! Did you build it? I've been considering doing one at some point.
Beginning Vectrex coding...help
- Thread starter minwah
- Start date
@Guddler, hi Dude, long time no speak! What you saw was state of play back of 2020, good progress since then, maybe an actual game to play in a year or two ;-)
I have 4 Vectrex, none of them wobble at all and that's how I received them, no fixes needed.
Maybe it's the "Swiss Quality" over-engineered mains distribution system? We have 3-phase power at the internal distribution board, cooker and washing machines are on separate phases to everything else.
Maybe all being in the basement helps?
Do you live under a pylon?
Maybe you need a cap kit?
I have 4 Vectrex, none of them wobble at all and that's how I received them, no fixes needed.
Maybe it's the "Swiss Quality" over-engineered mains distribution system? We have 3-phase power at the internal distribution board, cooker and washing machines are on separate phases to everything else.
Maybe all being in the basement helps?
Do you live under a pylon?
Maybe you need a cap kit?
Hi !!
Dunno, what it is. Was nowhere near a pylon and it had been capped (they all have). Haven't tried it since we moved, it's still in storage. Maybe I need someone else who has a bit more patience than I have these days to service it. I'm running very low on patience for old hardware.
I'd like to get back into it a bit but right now I don't have the power sockets for it. Waiting for the "new" house to be rewired and until then I'm already up to 10 things plugged into one socket. They're all low power but that's still a fire waiting to happen if I'm not careful. If only I could get an electrician to actually come back to me with a quote. You'd think nobody wants the work.
And sorry, to thread dump. Just had to ask after following that link led me to your video.
Dunno, what it is. Was nowhere near a pylon and it had been capped (they all have). Haven't tried it since we moved, it's still in storage. Maybe I need someone else who has a bit more patience than I have these days to service it. I'm running very low on patience for old hardware.
I'd like to get back into it a bit but right now I don't have the power sockets for it. Waiting for the "new" house to be rewired and until then I'm already up to 10 things plugged into one socket. They're all low power but that's still a fire waiting to happen if I'm not careful. If only I could get an electrician to actually come back to me with a quote. You'd think nobody wants the work.
And sorry, to thread dump. Just had to ask after following that link led me to your video.
I thought they all had a bit of wobble - some worse than others. Every Vectrex seems to be different.
Both mine have been re-capped, and one's had a new transformer fitted, and they still have a bit of wobble on things like the test cart distortion test screens. Maybe fine-tuning the 555 timer on the power board would help...
I also tried hooking up a mains filter as an experiement, but it made little to no difference.
big10p2022-01-18 14:35:53
I also tried hooking up a mains filter as an experiement, but it made little to no difference.
big10p2022-01-18 14:35:53
It may not help that we tend to be on the high side of the voltage tolerance in the UK. Maybe Switzerland is on the Lower side? Last I measured it our old house was up around 250v which is still within the EU 230v +/- 10%. That may have just been a day of low demand however.
It's very difficult to get information about actual voltages in different countries because most places that list them just quote the official standards, so any list that shows the UK as 230v can't be trusted because our grid has always been 240v and never changed when the EU changed. The standards just introduced tolerances that suited everyone and gave manufacturers a target to work to. On a "high load" day our mains in the UK could be more like 230v, on a low load day (surplus supply), more like 250+v.
This has to have an effect on items like the vectrex that just have a very simple transformer and power supply arrangement (linear if I'm not mistaken but it's been a few years since I've looked at it) and it wouldn't surprise me at all if a high end voltage would introduce wobble. What would probably solve it once and for all, assuming my memory is right and it's a linear supply would be to design a new PSU for the vectrex that is switched mode. I think. I'm by no means an expert on this stuff.
So there you go, would be interesting to know what's actually coming out of the wall in Switzerland!
[EDIT] And there we are, just found the info I wanted. 220v although Phil would have to confirm:
https://www.se.com/uk/en/faqs/FA144717/
Now you would think that a UK Vectrex would be fine given it would have been designed to run on 240v back in the early 80's since that's what we were officially on back then. And indeed, this may not have the slightest thing to do with the wobble. But these items must be getting tired by now (I know I am), so who knows.
guddler2022-01-18 15:13:57
It's very difficult to get information about actual voltages in different countries because most places that list them just quote the official standards, so any list that shows the UK as 230v can't be trusted because our grid has always been 240v and never changed when the EU changed. The standards just introduced tolerances that suited everyone and gave manufacturers a target to work to. On a "high load" day our mains in the UK could be more like 230v, on a low load day (surplus supply), more like 250+v.
This has to have an effect on items like the vectrex that just have a very simple transformer and power supply arrangement (linear if I'm not mistaken but it's been a few years since I've looked at it) and it wouldn't surprise me at all if a high end voltage would introduce wobble. What would probably solve it once and for all, assuming my memory is right and it's a linear supply would be to design a new PSU for the vectrex that is switched mode. I think. I'm by no means an expert on this stuff.
So there you go, would be interesting to know what's actually coming out of the wall in Switzerland!
[EDIT] And there we are, just found the info I wanted. 220v although Phil would have to confirm:
https://www.se.com/uk/en/faqs/FA144717/
Now you would think that a UK Vectrex would be fine given it would have been designed to run on 240v back in the early 80's since that's what we were officially on back then. And indeed, this may not have the slightest thing to do with the wobble. But these items must be getting tired by now (I know I am), so who knows.
guddler2022-01-18 15:13:57
I have a few from Europe. I wonder if these are "tuned" for lower voltage. I have one that practically does a Mexican wave
I've been working on some display routines that put around 650 vectors on-screen in under 30,000 cycles i.e. 50Hz, but driven on interrupt instead of using wait_recal. When you're over 30,000, the whole lot wobbles like crazy because the next interrupt is delayed, but when you drop under 30,000 cycles the display just becomes rock solid, it's a thing of beauty. It's so rock solid that your eyes play tricks on you, you imagine that the vectors are floating around, so you put your finger against the screen and you see they're not going anywhere!
Excellent stuff have you got a video or image Phil?
d-type said:
Can't be over-voltage then because if anything they'd have been designed for 240v in the early 80's. Well, I suppose it could be, but 250v vs 240v is what 5%? ish. I suppose it could make a difference. I'm not so convinced now though. I was sort of hoping you'd say your mains was around 220.
By the way UK mains is officially 230V too, just like the whole of mainland Europe is, but the UK isn't and never has been 230. That's just what they say since mainland Europe standardised.
Nope, because it's top secretHurray Banana said:
I don't really like to discuss projects that I might not finish, though I'm well over 50% now, all the core bits are done. For me, it's quite chunky and could easily take another year or two. It's ok to discuss the various techniques, though, I've done so on the Discord. I've got reverse-engineered & reassembled assembly code from the SWTPC from the 70s, Malban's SmartList vector draw routines converted to Forth assembly and customized for my app, various other bits and it's all cross compiled/assembled using Gforth and runs on the Vectrex using VecForth.d-type2022-01-18 22:09:11
big10p said:
Cheers! It's going to take quite a while to get all the artwork / printing etc done so won't be released for a while, but this year hopefully.
I did build the Vectrex cocktail:
http://www.ukvac.com/forum/vectrex-cocktail_topic336569_page1.html?KW=vectrex+cocktail
minwah said:
Thanks! I'll have a good look through that thread.
Another vid of Vyrzon was posted a couple of days ago on facebook, and it really does look (and sound!) excellent. Really looking forward to the release! Is it going to be a limited release? I'm sure it will sell loads.
big10p said:Another vid of Vyrzon was posted a couple of days ago on facebook, and it really does look (and sound!) excellent. Really looking forward to the release! Is it going to be a limited release? I'm sure it will sell loads.
Cool, thanks!
I still have a lot to work out so nothing is certain but my plan is to do a first run of 100, and if there is enough interest to do further runs.
minwah said:big10p said:Another vid of Vyrzon was posted a couple of days ago on facebook, and it really does look (and sound!) excellent. Really looking forward to the release! Is it going to be a limited release? I'm sure it will sell loads.
Cool, thanks!
I still have a lot to work out so nothing is certain but my plan is to do a first run of 100, and if there is enough interest to do further runs.
I'm sure the first run will sell out very quickly. You can certainly put me down for a copy, but understand if you're just going to do first-come-first-served on release.