Fuel prices + New E10 Fuel

[Guests]

Well recently, I've seen threads about vaccines, global warming and other topics so as it pi55es me off so badly I wondered what your thoughts were on this topic?

Firstly, E10, had any issues in your cars? I only ride a pair of motorbikes, one injection one carbed.. Been warned that E10 will destroy my carburettor so I have to use the high octain E5 which is currently at £1.52+ per litre!

That swiftly brings me onto point number two... fuel costs are going up and up and up... Nearing £1.40 a litre here and in some places i've seen it even exceed it for regular unleaded! With the introduction of E10 I've only seen the prices rising too... What the hell is going on?

E10 = more corn juice less actual petroleum so.. cheaper..? It should be? right? or am i right? Because currently all I'm seeing is poorer quality fuel, higher costs and a lot of engines running rough as hell (my injection Honda motorbike being one of them).

Am i alone here or does this really annoy other people as well? Fuel prices have just gone too far now imo and on top of this they are talking about introducing a pay per mile tax and any car 2017+ will no longer pay car tax at all. The roads (at least around here) are buggered enough we don't need less cars paying tax. Plus imagine people like our good buddy 'Martin the delivery man' ... Paying per mile for tax? yeah, right! It's people like him who would get hit hardest.

Original article on this: https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/1493730/new-car-tax-changes-updates-pay-per-mile-road-pricing-uk

Urgh, it all just pi55es me right off tbh. Thoughts?

rotunda2021-09-21 16:56:52

 

[tronads]

The treasury is set to lose most of its revenue from fuel duty in the future due to the increasing uptake of electric cars, so it has to do something. It would appear that they are hedging their bet's on two methods to make sure they get this revenue by alternative means....that would appear to be (1) pay per mile tax, which will require massive investment in cameras to capture the number plates, or (2) Tax electricity differently if its being used to charge a vehicle. Clearly they are favouring (2) due to the push to get everyone on Smart Meters (where they will be able to identify and distinguish the use of electricity between normal household use and vehicle charging use - and tax accordingly. This is why I tell everyone not to get a smart meter, but its only a matter of time before we will be forced to do so.

 

[thegreathopper]

I presume the fuel increases to encourage people to look at other transport options, cycling, electric vehicles or catching the bus.

As someone who lives and works in London the traffic situation is getting ridiculous, it’s almost quicker to walk than drive to work during peak time, can take an hour and a half to drive 4 miles, now back on the tube and walking.

 

[Guests]

I presume the fuel increases to encourage people to look at other transport options, cycling, electric vehicles or catching the bus.

As someone who lives and works in London the traffic situation is getting ridiculous, it’s almost quicker to walk than drive to work during peak time, can take an hour and a half to drive 4 miles, now back on the tube and walking.

Wow! I live in the countryside and that seems like utter maddness. Like you mentioned... I'd sooner walk!

due to the push to get everyone on Smart Meters (where they will be able to identify and distinguish the use of electricity between normal household use and vehicle charging use - and tax accordingly. This is why I tell everyone not to get a smart meter, but its only a matter of time before we will be forced to do so.

I never even thought of that! Very, very good point i always thought there was a underlying cause for the push of smart metres. This aren't stupid these lot are they. Sneaky bas**rds

 

[robotech]

I think it's all designed to push all of the older vehicles off the road same with the tax increases for higher polluting vehicles and the pollution zones that you have to pay to get into
The E10 distroys rubber on older vehicles
They know this so there's no logical reason to just switch over
Other than to make them too expensive to run on premium fuel all the time so forceing a lot of people into getting something newer
Maybe push people into an electric car if they can afford it

There trying to force people to adopt and spend money on electric cars to boost the economy
Once enough people have switched over and they have done all the tax breaks and fiddles they do to backhand cash into there own pockets they will come up with some other scheme to rob the motorist
As electric won't be the cleanest fuel Anymore it will be hydrogen or something and the cycle starts again

Same as what they did with diesel,lpg,addblue,hybrids
It's not really about emmisions at all are all the haulage trucks or farm equipment or planes suddenly going to switch to electric
robotech2021-09-21 19:23:14

 

[John Bennett]

I've always put premium fuel into my 180sx (as it needs the higher octane), but it is eye-wateringly expensive. There's a lot of tax, but many global factors cause the rises and falls - I think it was actually more (or similar) in 2013.
My (short) commute car is a trusty 19 year old Golf diesel which does 55mpg. I do fancy an electric car, but as I like older cheap cars for runarounds, that makes me think anything I'd get would wind up with a f**ked battery. Is this actually the case now, or are they on permanent lease? (I should look into it).

They can't actually fit a smart meter to my house (they had a look, was 2 flats with multiple and it's too complicated to merge it all).

But yeah, they'll have to do something as the majority migrate to electric as it's significant source of income.

I don't see it as anything particularly underhand, just an unfortunate problem in which we will have to move to sustainable sources, which poses masses of challenges aside from govt income. I'm still not sure how they're going to sort the reliance of household gas - you can't 'just' dual-pipe the country with hydrogen for a big switch over.

 

[robotech]

I was thinking more of actual on board hydrogen gas production rather than it being piped to you
But I think we're a few years off that yet we haven't even mastered decent battery's and a charging infrastructure to support them one charge point on a carpark won't do it I don't get why there's no standardised charger plug either
Turn up and it don't fit your car great

Good point on the smart meter thing though I still haven't got one
But don't think I will ever own an electric car in my life time

There's a lot of complaints of people using a lot more of this E10
Miles per gallon I wonder if it is really low octane for a given volume like lpg was ? robotech2021-09-21 19:32:52

 

[digweed]

Everything is going way up - just had a notification from my electric supplier that my bill has now gone from £51 per month to £86.50???

Went to go buy lunch from Co-Op and the hotdog was £1.79, the manager came and said to me that from tomorrow the price will go up to £2.29 due to a hot food tax. If you buy any hot food from a shop it is now taxed....

Then as you say petrol is almost £1.40 a litre smh

 

[penrhos]

I've been on a few long runs on E10 and on my Ford cmax mpg has dropped from 51 to 47 so it's deffinately not as good, car doesn't seem to be noticeably slower though....

It's all a big green con - normal petrol is now labeled as super and 10p more.....this stealth tax and having to go electric by 2030 is just going to force less well off people off the roads.

 

[Guests]

That's the thing, they say it will give less emissions on E10 NOT better mileage... I must admit i thought my bike was running through fuel on E10 as well so you saying that just confirms my suspicions.. we pay more with more fill ups too.

normal petrol is now labeled as super and 10p more

You know i thought about this last night the thought just entered my head...




Where did all the E5 normal stuff go I'm sure there is stock piles of it still. Then i thought maybe it's being sold as high octane at a premium... I wouldn't put it past them what so ever.




I'd love some octane tests done on these fuels. When will the day come when we say enough is enough? It's getting stupid now.

As for a hot food tax... WHAT!? Sugar, now hot food... Just getting totally ridiculous now.

rotunda2021-09-22 11:49:55

 

[penrhos]

There's always been hot food tax.

Different for eat in against take away.

 

[Guests]

I had no idea about that. Crazy.

 

[digweed]

Yeah the manager stated the hot food tax was frozen during Covid but now back again from last Sunday. This was for a take away hot dog.

 

[thegreathopper]

I think they call it the hot pie tax, if you have a cold dog it’s tax free.

 

[namfreak]

The treasury is set to lose most of its revenue from fuel duty in the future due to the increasing uptake of electric cars, so it has to do something. It would appear that they are hedging their bet's on two methods to make sure they get this revenue by alternative means....that would appear to be (1) pay per mile tax, which will require massive investment in cameras to capture the number plates, or (2) Tax electricity differently if its being used to charge a vehicle. Clearly they are favouring (2) due to the push to get everyone on Smart Meters (where they will be able to identify and distinguish the use of electricity between normal household use and vehicle charging use - and tax accordingly. This is why I tell everyone not to get a smart meter, but its only a matter of time before we will be forced to do so.

Some interesting points there on how Govt will capture revenue from drivers in the future
I thought they were at it already so some degree, as when I purchased a "nearly new" car some 3 years ago I thought my road tax would come down because it's a more fuel efficient vehicle.

Right? Wrong - because the cost of the car "when new" was over a certain threshold, I get charged a £330 premium over the standard road tax (£120) making it £450 a year road tax for the first 5 years

So although it's a fuel efficient vehicle I'm paying road tax similar to a gas guzzling Range Rover

One might argue if you can afford a bigger car you can afford to tax it - which is ethically right
Seems the Government is doing exactly that and reserving the lower rate Road Tax with no surcharge for the small runabout vehicles

Of course the £320 premium is removed after 5 years by which time some people trade the car in for the next one and so the cycle of "value of car when new premium" kicks in again

Future could be based on lots of things - value of car, pay per mile or tax on electricity. I'm sure the Government have their greatest minds on it right now...…..namfreak2021-09-22 14:46:02

 

[Bods]

Well i nearly mentioned about the e10 but thought f**k it

Why have an off topic section and get more crap when you use it to discuss hot topics that keep being talked about else where

Thought when said about checking older cars here we go, will i get screwed over and have to pay for more expensive but no, testament to honda using quality components all honda cars with fuel injection are ok and partners suzuki all good too

Not tried any yet mind, i did try super unleaded once, it picked up a little better but no better mpg, thankfully tho i dont have to use my cars to go work now and saving me a fortune

Wish they would charge by the mile, that way it would be fair, you take cars on emmissions but if the person that pays £20 a year in diesel and does 30,000 how does it make sense if i do 1000 mile a year and pay £170 because its slightly higher pollution but ive polluted the planet 29,000 mile less, thats the governtment for, rip off the poor look after the rich and sod the planet while you do it all

Hope they dont use copper in all the car charging cables either, can imagine how long they will last before being stolenBods2021-09-22 17:20:23

 

[robotech]

Honda do make some of the best engines
I have an old car and an old two stroke bike that probably won't run on e10 they don't get used really though so I'm happy to run them on premium fuel
I've never noticed any difference in the cars I had years ago by running the higher octane fuels or fuel boosters and I've had some tuned cars that were meant to of made more power with it

My dayly driver is a diesel because I have to travel two hours plus a day to get to work and back
If they do start charging per mile I will have to find another job inemagine a lot of people will be in the same situation it's not viable to use public transport I looked at it once and it would take around four hours to get to work and I couldent get home after as the trains had stopped ?

The solution for me as things change over the years will just be to engine swap a more modern engine into an older car

Yeh i thought the same about the off topic section being for random discussion too if it's not
Please delete my post
I'll take my ramblings somewhere else

 

[John Bennett]

You're more likely to get det/pinking with a modified car running lower-octane fuel. There are a few folk who'd notice.
I presume most modern road cars are smart enough to detect crap fuel and de-tune accordingly.

 

[robotech]

I meant I never noticed any actual power increase with the higher octane fuels or boosters but it was seat of the pants Dyno the cars weren't rolling roaded or anything

I know what knock/ det / pinking feels and sounds like It killed my last bike piston when the carb got partially blocked internally and couldent provide enough fuel at wide open throttle

 

[Bods]

Japan use higher octane fuel anyway dont they

Ive read some discussions on fuel imports as they usually have slighty higher bhp so need to use super unleaded anyway to get that performance and if they use standard i think some said about pinking

When i was looking at engine swap in mine, i asked dvla about lower tax rate, after march 2001 which i didnt know about when buying car after 15 plus years having company cars the tax went on emmissions, having known that i would of bought 2000 year, i bought mine for vtec engine, leather seats as they did special in 2001 with them so that cost me more money in tax, so reply from dvla no problem swapping engine to 1.5 but when taxed on emissions they wont change tax cost, so had to buy 2000 year then swap reducing tax from now £330 to £170 for dropping 1.6 to 1.5 while increasing bhp from 104 to 114

So basically after 2001 year, you could take out a 1.2 engine that was low emmissions and drop in a v8 and still pay same tax

Ok forget the pay by mile rob, dont wanna see folk like ya self screwed over

Missed a bit out on mine, mainly swapped engine for better mpg, lowering tax by half was bonus as its under 1.6 it cahnges to lower band, not only that it only goes up £5 every 2 years i think where 1.6 up goes up £10 every year so gap gets bigger and soon my old one will be £400 a year tax which started at £270 when i bought it

Worked out saving £450 to £550 year in tax and fuel

They wouldn't lower tax on emmissions based ones as they say its not just the engine that controls emmissions, so you cant have it tested then no? There just not interested and another bonus was that the emmissions is much lower, down about 4 bands K or L it would be, which was high, 3 from topBods2021-09-22 17:56:57