Ridge Racer Full Scale (3 screens)

[John Bennett]

Well that's great that the video works too - I was scared I'd be asked to modify some obscure custom build of MAME

I should say, I'm not sure much else will work - let me know.
They all seem to do slightly different things with the C139 comms IC and I've not managed to work it all out. I don't think Ace Driver will work, but do try it.

I didn't manage to get System 2 to work either, so no Final Lap yet.

 

[yoganuggy]

I would guess Final Lap uses similar tech.

The link PCB in the Rave Racer board set was faulty when I got it originally (an easy fix with just a bad omron relay). But while researching a fix at the time, many people were saying the final lap link PCB was compatible.

happy to beta test anything

 

[John Bennett]

It's the same comms chip in Final lap (and all System 2, and System 21 including Galaxian 3

), it just seems that every game seems to use slightly different features of the chip, and as there's no documentation, I have to try to guess what bits to toggle to fool the games (things like new data, numbers of bytes received etc).
I worry it might be 'cos some games are totally intolerant of any dropped packets, but hopefully not, as that's near impossible to acheive.

 

[alfman]

Bump....

Ok, I've not done anything much on this in a while, but folk wanted to have a try of the multiplayer linkup WIP.

So, if you download this link, you should be able to have a go at:

Rave Racer

Ridge Racer2

https://philwip.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Mamejb_1.zip

Install it then get the ROMs for those 2 games.

In the folder you will see some batch files

linkup1_to_2.bat

linkup2_to_1.bat

Run both of these to open 2 MAME instances and open the game twice.

It will run like sh*te (1fps) until both instances are open as there's a comms wait in there I need to improve somehow.

Anyway when both running, go into the service menu (Tab, dip switches) and set the CPU number to 2 in the second player and maybe pick a different car colour). Unset the dip to save it. MAME should have two sets of configuration folders - one for each instance. It might be a pain to do as the keyboard may input to both sides, but you should be able to muddle through.

It should now work with 2 players on one PC. Windows will ask for access rights for MAME - say yes. This is because it uses 'globalcomms' to link the games up, the same way the Sega stuff does.

If you read up on how to use that, you should be able to put one instance on another PC over a LAN. It'll involve editing the addresses in the bat files. I've never tried it.

If you want a play of fullscale, then so linkups1_to2, 2_to_3 and 3_to_1 (as it's 3 instances). I think I set the jumpers right for it to run. It's obviously a technicolour nightmare with bad video ROMs. Needs a beefy PC, but it's now spreading the load over multiple cores, unlike one instance of MAME, so I can run it at 60fps here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztgspA9GuCg

3 or more players craps out on RR2 and Rave Racer - too many dropped packets in the chain. I need to think of a sync method, but it's hard when there is no 'master' PCB in the Namco system (all boards are considered equal).

Ignore any other 'supported' games in this mini-build - just things I've been dicking on with. You'll want to turn scanlines down too - not appropriate for VGA games and looks awful.

Anyway, this is NOT any kind of official release and I don't know when I'll get to work on it again, but consider yourselves playtesters if you like.

First i want to thank you for this awesome work... only registered here for writing this (coming from the Arcadecontrols.com forum)

Now i can play some of these games over the network (LAN) with my daughter... and hey she is not that bad at all... ok i let her win sometimes

But i want to ask you if you can do me a favor?!? :

compile a "no-nag" version... so we dont need to hit "ENTER" every time we startup a game. would be really cool

I tested "Ace Driver" and it doesnt link up. but you already stated that it will not work.

And now a really big request, can you give a look at the communication hardware from "MIDWAY V UNIT HARDWARE" ?!? so games like "Cruis'n USA / Cruis'n World / Off Road Challenge" could be played in link mode. a dream come true

For this request i have some links for you :

https://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=379199&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&vc=1

https://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=381886&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

http://system16.com/hardware.php?id=615&page=1#1143

I think a brother from you "Phil Bennett" is helping there too?!?

And again many many thanks for this "MAME BUILD". be healthy and keep up the good work

 

[John Bennett]

First i want to thank you for this awesome work... only registered here for writing this (coming from the Arcadecontrols.com forum)

Now i can play some of these games over the network (LAN) with my daughter... and hey she is not that bad at all... ok i let her win sometimes

But i want to ask you if you can do me a favor?!? :

compile a "no-nag" version... so we dont need to hit "ENTER" every time we startup a game. would be really cool

I tested "Ace Driver" and it doesnt link up. but you already stated that it will not work.

And now a really big request, can you give a look at the communication hardware from "MIDWAY V UNIT HARDWARE" ?!? so games like "Cruis'n USA / Cruis'n World / Off Road Challenge" could be played in link mode. a dream come true

For this request i have some links for you :

https://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=379199&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&vc=1

https://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=381886&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

http://system16.com/hardware.php?id=615&page=1#1143

I think a brother from you "Phil Bennett" is helping there too?!?

And again many many thanks for this "MAME BUILD". be healthy and keep up the good work

Thank you for your kind words.

I don't mind you sharing the download link and instructions on another forum if registering and logging in is off-putting for people (although the UKVAC is a nice place to join

, and I can answer questions on here).

By 'hitting enter', do you mean the screen where it lists the problems with the game? (like No LAN

)- I'll look to sort that out, seems easy enough.

I'm totally overloaded with projects right now, but I will look at the Midway at some point, as it looks interesting. I see there is actual proper leaked source code for it and the MAME driver looks partly-done for the comms. It might be that it is impossible though if the comms timings are really strict, I guess I might find out if take a look(although it'll be 2022 at this rate).

Regarding this driver, later in the year I'll tidy it up and I'll pass it over to the MAME guys to do what they wish. I'll obviously tweak it a bit after that. Would be nice to get Ace Driver and other stuff working, especially if people are actually playing it in cabinets

Oh and yeah Phil is my brother. Despite being 4 years younger, he's got much more experience at writing for MAME and repairing arcade boards than I have (I spent the spare time in my 20's tinkering with modified Japanese cars, he spent his time writing the Buggy Boy MAME driver

)

P.S. They're a bit aggressive on that mameworld forum, looking at that link

.

John Bennett2021-09-23 19:38:53

 

[alfman]

Thank you for your kind words.

I don't mind you sharing the download link and instructions on another forum if registering and logging in is off-putting for people (although the UKVAC is a nice place to join

, and I can answer questions on here).

By 'hitting enter', do you mean the screen where it lists the problems with the game? (like No LAN

)- I'll look to sort that out, seems easy enough.

Yea i mean this annoying screen

I'm totally overloaded with projects right now, but I will look at the Midway at some point, as it looks interesting. I see there is actual proper leaked source code for it and the MAME driver looks partly-done for the comms. It might be that it is impossible though if the comms timings are really strict, I guess I might find out if take a look(although it'll be 2022 at this rate).

No problem and i know it take some time for investigate and so on. look at the "Sega Model 3 Emulator (supermodel)" and how long it took before the link communication worked in a playable state (speed). i would help you, but im only a consumer

Regarding this driver, later in the year I'll tidy it up and I'll pass it over to the MAME guys to do what they wish. I'll obviously tweak it a bit after that. Would be nice to get Ace Driver and other stuff working, especially if people are actually playing it in cabinets

Great informations and thanks for your freetime that you invest in this project.

Oh and yeah Phil is my brother. Despite being 4 years younger, he's got much more experience at writing for MAME and repairing arcade boards than I have (I spent the spare time in my 20's tinkering with modified Japanese cars, he spent his time writing the Buggy Boy MAME driver

)

I checked already your site about all the stuff you guys are fixing and give some more deep details how you did all this. its great to read and i like this things really much. in my childhood i was often in italy (holiday) and there mostly in the ARCADES than on the beach

i dont know if you know about the guy on youtube "lukemorse1" ?!? he is often repairing stuff (PCBs) from different companys. very interesting :

https://www.youtube.com/user/lukemorse1/featured

Modified japanese cars so like initial D stuff? cool...

P.S. They're a bit aggressive on that mameworld forum, looking at that link

.

They are

but some people over there are really ok and give some deep informations about their work to the public like "David Haywood" aka HAZE.

alfman2021-09-23 20:25:04

 

[Boomslangnz]

Hi John,

Very cool work and thanks a bunch for sharing. Always love when people share their work with community!

Hope one day this work can be added to official mame but happy with work that has been done.

I saw you gave permission for link and info to be posted elsewhere so I just posted it over at arcade controls forum and hopefully a few people will get to try it out

Thanks!

 

[John Bennett]

Thank you

. Regarding MAME, I've passed on the WIP, to a dev, so it's not only residing on my hard disk.
Maybe one day it'll be worth submitting, but regardless, if I have any time to look at the driver again and I make any improvements, I'll put an update on here

edit: Oh and I can see the thread on your arcade controls forum. I'll keep an eye on it for any questions/issues. It's great that people are making improvements to the batch files/config

edit2: I've just tried to register on that forum as it seems easier for everyone. I never got a confirmation e-mail though (tried 3 times now)

John Bennett2021-10-09 19:56:35

 

[MrThunderwing]

Hi John, I just registered here to say thanks for sharing your special MAME build and also to ask a question. I've got the two player versions of Ridge Racer 2 and Rave Racer working OK. How do you get the full scale version into the 3 screen mode though? I've got the full scale ROM, I've got my -comm_localport and -comm_remoteport all setup correctly in my batch file for the 3 versions of MAME, but when the 3 open up, they're acting like 3 separate machines that aren't linked. I've had a look in the game's test menu to see if there's an option there to get them linked up, but I couldn't see anything. Any help greatly appreciated! Also, I saw in the description of a video demonstrating the full scale 3 screen game a mention of global_comms (or something like that) which improves the game's performance. I've tried Googling that term and MAME to find out more, but I couldn't find any info. Would you mind explaining nwhat it is and how to use it, please? Many thanks!MrThunderwing2021-10-09 21:18:11

 

[John Bennett]

Hi, I saw your question on my video and actually tried to register on the arcade controls forum, but my confirmation e-mail hasn't arrived

You must have already got global comms to work, in order to play Rave Racer and RR2, so that's not your problem.

It might be dip switches, although I thought I'd put them in the .zip.

To be sure, the config settings for the three instances (to run on one PC) are:

jb_build64 -w -cfg_directory cfg -nvram_directory nvram1 -comm_localport 15111 -comm_remoteport 15112 -comm_localhost 0.0.0.0 -comm_remotehost 127.0.0.1

jb_build64 -w -cfg_directory cfg2 -nvram_directory nvram2 -comm_localport 15112 -comm_remoteport 15113 -comm_localhost 0.0.0.0 -comm_remotehost 127.0.0.1

jb_build64 -w -cfg_directory cfg3 -nvram_directory nvram3 -comm_localport 15113 -comm_remoteport 15111 -comm_localhost 0.0.0.0 -comm_remotehost 127.0.0.1

You could theoretically put each screen on another PC using a network.

Make the first instance run the centre screen by setting both the first 2 dip switches (both 'unknown') to ON

Make the second instance the right screen by putting only the first dip ON

Leave all dip switches off for the third screen.

 

[MrThunderwing]

Thanks dude, changing the dip switch settings as you described has got the multiscreens working in the first two MAME instances for me now (left and center screens). The third screen, the one on the right with all the dipswitches turned off, just stays blank now though after the 'Parameter loading' screen just after the game loads.

I wonder whether that possibly might be down to my aging PC hardware? When the 3 versions were previously loading as if they were running separately, the third MAME instance was incredibly laggy compared to the other two.

MrThunderwing2021-10-09 23:41:37

 

[John Bennett]

Hmm, maybe I’ve got left and right dips vs linkup IDs mixed up. I’ve always had it set up as 1:centre, 2: left, 3: right. It does require a monster PC,, but I would expect the occasional frame to appear, even on an ancient PC. Worth playing with the settings.

To answer a comment on the other forum, every game does something slightly different with the comms, so it’s been a challenge to even get the few games you are working (driver’s eyes should also work, but as one, painfully slow, instance, right now). One day I will look again at Ace Driver and I might split drivers eyes up to increase the speed.

 

[Boomslangnz]

Hi, I saw your question on my video and actually tried to register on the arcade controls forum, but my confirmation e-mail hasn't arrived

You must have already got global comms to work, in order to play Rave Racer and RR2, so that's not your problem.

It might be dip switches, although I thought I'd put them in the .zip.

To be sure, the config settings for the three instances (to run on one PC) are:

jb_build64 -w -cfg_directory cfg -nvram_directory nvram1 -comm_localport 15111 -comm_remoteport 15112 -comm_localhost 0.0.0.0 -comm_remotehost 127.0.0.1

jb_build64 -w -cfg_directory cfg2 -nvram_directory nvram2 -comm_localport 15112 -comm_remoteport 15113 -comm_localhost 0.0.0.0 -comm_remotehost 127.0.0.1

jb_build64 -w -cfg_directory cfg3 -nvram_directory nvram3 -comm_localport 15113 -comm_remoteport 15111 -comm_localhost 0.0.0.0 -comm_remotehost 127.0.0.1

You could theoretically put each screen on another PC using a network.

Make the first instance run the centre screen by setting both the first 2 dip switches (both 'unknown') to ON

Make the second instance the right screen by putting only the first dip ON

Leave all dip switches off for the third screen.

Hm i assume you have checked junk folder etc?

Would be great for you to have account on there

*EDIT*

one of the arcade controls forum admins asked if you can try registering with any other email address? Apparently some services get flagged as spam and they do not know how to fixBoomslangnz2021-10-10 01:42:13

 

[John Bennett]

It’s a .hotmail.com account.

Unless I typed my email wrong...

If an admin could delete it all (username ‘John Bennett’

’, I can have another try.

 

[MrThunderwing]

Hmm, maybe I’ve got left and right dips vs linkup IDs mixed up. I’ve always had it set up as 1:centre, 2: left, 3: right. It does require a monster PC,, but I would expect the occasional frame to appear, even on an ancient PC. Worth playing with the settings.

Hrrrm, if I change the 1st dipswitch setting on the number 2 machine from on to off, it changes it from the left screen to the right screen. I've messed around with the dipswitch setting on the third machine a bit but can't seem to find a combination that gets the 3rd screen working with the few dipswitch combinations I've tried.

The third screen is so incredibly laggy though it barely responds to my tab presses. The other two screens seem to vary from both running incredibly smoothly, to sometimes the 2nd screen lagging. when the 2nd screen has occasionally severely lagged the 'Parameter Loading' screen has popped back up, so I do still wonder if there's some sort of latency issue that's causing the network to fail between machine 2 and 3. I think my PC just doesn't have the horsepower to be able to run this as it's intended.

Incidentally, have you ever heard of VivaNonno? It's an ancient emulator that was designed purely for Namco system 22 games and Ridge Racer 2 and Rave Racer were the only 2 that ever worked for it. I don't think the project was ever finished or had many updates, but the emulator itself was considerably more 'lightweight' in the way it ran the games than the way MAME does. It could run Rave Racer at 60fps on the crappy old dual-core Dell machine I used to use at work with no problems. I wonder if your link up code could be applied to it (I have zero knowledge of coding BTW, I realise I might be asking you the equivalent of whether it might be possible to get one of my old Betamax video cassettes working in my Bluray player).

 

[John Bennett]

What CPU do you have?

Yes, I remember Vivanonno well and I think MAME used it as a starting point. It was amazing at the time.

I think the reasons it runs faster are:

It bypasses a few things, such as the smaller CPUs (for I/O?)

It farms the graphics acceleration off to Direct3D, whereas MAME manually plots every pixel.

But the net-result is that, in 2021, you can see MAME is more accurate. Vivanonno has cars halfway through the floor!

In the ideal world, without kids, work and other projects, I think it would be cool to create an emulator from scratch that ran on a Pi and used 3D acceleration (in a careful manner). But I don't think I'd ever get the time, and being honest.... I just wrote some lines of code for a hacky serial emulator, which is less than 0.1% of the code in MAME for these games. The work that was done before that for System21/22 is far beyond that, extremely clever and I'd need years of learning to even know if I could make an emulator.

Did they even release the source code for Vivanonno?

 

[MrThunderwing]

I've got an an Intel i5-2310 @2.90GHz with 8GBs of ram, which is about 10 years old now. My GPU's an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960 with 2 GB which is coming up to about 5 years old now. I'm still rocking Windows 7 Home Premium on it.

I actually thought the PC was on it's last legs recently, as I'd been having random crashes for the last few weeks. But I seem to have resurrected it by either unscrewing the fan on my CPU heatsink and hoovering all the dust and other crud that'd built up there out of it (there was tons) or with a fresh install of some new GPU drivers. Anyway, one of those 2 things seems to have fixed the problem, so hurrah.

 

[John Bennett]

Hmm. I would have thought that would work (ok, not 60fps, but better than you say).
3D acceleration isn't really used, so it's down to the core speed.

The nice thing about these multiple instances of MAME is that they spread the load over multiple cores (normal MAME doesn't do much of that), so 4 cores at 2.9GHz sounds like it should be better than you say. Driver's Eyes runs awful as it tries to do it all with one instance (so just uses one CPU core).

If I get the chance this week, I'll start looking at it again, see if I can make a few changes like the warning message and rename the dip switches to something more obvious

 

[Boomslangnz]

Hi John,

I got a pm from Admin on Arcade Controls Forum. They asked me to let you know info below

Just got an e-mail from Saint letting me know he was able to manually activate John's account here so he should be able to log in now.

- Once he logs in and posts something here, Vigo or I will approve his first post and he'll be good to go.

Thanks!

 

[pppaulie.s]

G'day John,
I just wanted to firstly, swing by and pass on my thanks for the multiplayer versions of Rave Racer and Ridge Racer2!! Well DONE!!
I'm currently building my custom 4P Arcade Racer cabinets so I thought I'd also check-in to see if there has been any progress with 4P Link?

Many thanks again John!!!!